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I had a similar experience in a rental. The one feature I missed was a wireless key fob, which is not included in the base trim. I understand the relentless cos

I had a similar experience in a rental. The one feature I missed was a wireless key fob, which is not included in the base trim. I understand the relentless cost pressure in automotive mfg, but that seems like it would have been $2 worth spending.

BLKNSLVR 2y ago
So it had a normal key, for unlocking the doors and turning the ignition?
- sephamorr 2y ago
  Yes, a boring mechanical key for both.
- karamanolev 2y ago
  Probably a remote with buttons to unlock the car (no keyless entry) and a key to insert into an ignition lock to turn it - that's what I've seen in today's entry-level cars.
  - graemep 2y ago
    I prefer that (and its what my fairly old car has). Smaller attack surface. There have been lots of issues with keyless.
    - clavigne 2y ago
      Car thieves have been using antennas to remotely trigger the keyless entry to great success here in Canada. Many people leave their keys on their doors so you just need to put a range extender against the door and scan cars in front until one of them opens.
  - laweijfmvo 2y ago
    Mine had just a key. Had to stick it in the lock and turn it.
vladvasiliu 2y ago
> The one feature I missed was a wireless key fob Are you talking about "keyless ignition" or even for opening the doors? If it's the former, why did you miss that? My dad's car and most recent rentals I've had were of the keyless go variety, and I don't really see how it's more practical. The one use where I can see it being better is with motorbikes, if you live in a location both with cold enough winters that you gain a lot by putting your thick gloves on while still inside and safe enough that you don't need to bother with a physical anti-theft device. I've actually had a terrible scare with one such car rental, where the attendant brought up the car, left it running, and forgot to give me the key. My personal vehicles all have keyed ignitions, so to my mind, engine running = key in the ignition. 10 minutes later, the agency called me up, telling me not to turn off the engine because I didn't have the key. Bonus points for being in a foreign, dense city I didn't know during rush hour. Fortunately, it was pretty hot outside, so I didn't turn off the engine to keep the AC running.
- sephamorr 2y ago
  The latter. I had to use a physical key inserted into the door to unlock it. I agree, keyless start isn't a 'critical' feature.
- alias_neo 2y ago
  I've only ever owned cars with keyless entry and push-start ignition; it's useful because you never actually have to get your keys out and risk losing them, also if your hands are full, you don't need to worry about finding them to open the boot, or worry whether the locks will freeze up in the winter and have to de-ice them. My car will also not let you lock it, and beep at you like crazy if you leave your keys anywhere inside, so you can't lock yourself out. You also can't lock it from the outside while the engine is running, but I believe that's a safety feature. I can throw my keys in my backpack, dump it in the boot and drive off, grab my backpack when I reach my destination and walk away.
  - eertami 2y ago
    > or worry whether the locks will freeze up in the winter and have to de-ice them. A keyless entry is no better than a regular 'push to send unlock signal' fob in this regard. You have to go much further back for cars that require the key to be inserted into the door. You say you've only ever owned cars that don't have key-turn ignition, but doesn't that mean the advantages you listed are just assumptions? Having used both, I can personally say I have never considered key-turn ignition a problem or disadvantage. I've never lost a car key the same way I've never lost a phone which I also take out of my pocket to use. I know people who (for insurance compliance) must store their key inside a faraday box. So to use their keyless entry car they still have to "get the key out" anyway. Push button unlock and key-turn ignition are not vulnerable to those kind of attacks/thefts.

BLKNSLVR 2y ago

So it had a normal key, for unlocking the doors and turning the ignition?

sephamorr 2y ago
Yes, a boring mechanical key for both.
karamanolev 2y ago
Probably a remote with buttons to unlock the car (no keyless entry) and a key to insert into an ignition lock to turn it - that's what I've seen in today's entry-level cars.
- graemep 2y ago
  I prefer that (and its what my fairly old car has). Smaller attack surface. There have been lots of issues with keyless.
  - clavigne 2y ago
    Car thieves have been using antennas to remotely trigger the keyless entry to great success here in Canada. Many people leave their keys on their doors so you just need to put a range extender against the door and scan cars in front until one of them opens.
- laweijfmvo 2y ago
  Mine had just a key. Had to stick it in the lock and turn it.

vladvasiliu 2y ago

> The one feature I missed was a wireless key fob Are you talking about "keyless ignition" or even for opening the doors? If it's the former, why did you miss that? My dad's car and most recent rentals I've had were of the keyless go variety, and I don't really see how it's more practical. The one use where I can see it being better is with motorbikes, if you live in a location both with cold enough winters that you gain a lot by putting your thick gloves on while still inside and safe enough that you don't need to bother with a physical anti-theft device. I've actually had a terrible scare with one such car rental, where the attendant brought up the car, left it running, and forgot to give me the key. My personal vehicles all have keyed ignitions, so to my mind, engine running = key in the ignition. 10 minutes later, the agency called me up, telling me not to turn off the engine because I didn't have the key. Bonus points for being in a foreign, dense city I didn't know during rush hour. Fortunately, it was pretty hot outside, so I didn't turn off the engine to keep the AC running.

sephamorr 2y ago
The latter. I had to use a physical key inserted into the door to unlock it. I agree, keyless start isn't a 'critical' feature.
alias_neo 2y ago
I've only ever owned cars with keyless entry and push-start ignition; it's useful because you never actually have to get your keys out and risk losing them, also if your hands are full, you don't need to worry about finding them to open the boot, or worry whether the locks will freeze up in the winter and have to de-ice them. My car will also not let you lock it, and beep at you like crazy if you leave your keys anywhere inside, so you can't lock yourself out. You also can't lock it from the outside while the engine is running, but I believe that's a safety feature. I can throw my keys in my backpack, dump it in the boot and drive off, grab my backpack when I reach my destination and walk away.
- eertami 2y ago
  > or worry whether the locks will freeze up in the winter and have to de-ice them. A keyless entry is no better than a regular 'push to send unlock signal' fob in this regard. You have to go much further back for cars that require the key to be inserted into the door. You say you've only ever owned cars that don't have key-turn ignition, but doesn't that mean the advantages you listed are just assumptions? Having used both, I can personally say I have never considered key-turn ignition a problem or disadvantage. I've never lost a car key the same way I've never lost a phone which I also take out of my pocket to use. I know people who (for insurance compliance) must store their key inside a faraday box. So to use their keyless entry car they still have to "get the key out" anyway. Push button unlock and key-turn ignition are not vulnerable to those kind of attacks/thefts.