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> The US don't have cheap cars because dealers and automakers prefer the high margins of more expensive cars. While BYD is quietly taking over in every country

> The US don't have cheap cars because dealers and automakers prefer the high margins of more expensive cars. While BYD is quietly taking over in every country that doesn't have a domestic auto industry. When BYD starts selling their $10,000 car Seagull car [1] in the US, even with a 100% tariff, it will be cheaper than anything Detroit makes. [1] https://electrek.co/2024/05/22/byds-10000-seagull-ev-worrying-rivals-hits-new-markets/ https://electrek.co/2024/05/22/byds-10000-seagull-ev-worryin...

Cumpiler69 2y ago
> even with a 100% tariff You're making it sounds like 100% is the highest possible ceiling for a tariff, when it's a number arbitrarily set to fulfill a specific agenda and can be infinitely adjusted. Of course if you protect your domestic car industry too much it will slowly become uncompetitive and irelevant on the international free market.
- sofixa 2y ago
  > You're making it sounds like 100% is the highest possible ceiling for a tariff, when it's a number arbitrarily set to fulfill a specific agenda and can be infinitely adjusted. Yep, the tariffs Boeing got on Bombardier's C-Series that were the final nail in the coffin of that program and Bombardier as a serious player, and gifted a great new jet to Airbus, were 300%.
- willio58 2y ago
  I hate how true this is. The US might as well peg the tarrif to infinity on any cars coming from China because at this rate that's essentially what we're doing.
yorwba 2y ago
As your article points out, it sells for about $20k in Mexico and Brazil. They're dumping at $10k in China to destroy other Chinese car manufacturers and profitability is not required until subsidies run out. But in other countries those other Chinese manufacturers are mostly not even competing, allowing BYD to price higher and turn a decent profit. If a 100% tariff means they only make Chinese-level profit from US sales, it might not be worth it.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  How much subsidy are they receiving?
  - fransje26 2y ago
    O(10^9)
    - fooker 2y ago
      That's a cute way to write O(1) :)
      - wizzwizz4 2y ago
        The variable in O(10^9) is the numerical base.
    - HPsquared 2y ago
      USD or CNY? Tbh neither of those numbers is very large for a car company.
      - fransje26 2y ago
        USD, per year. Which is about the R&D budget of major manufacturers.
- close04 2y ago
  > to destroy other Chinese car manufacturers and profitability is not required until subsidies run out So the Chinese government is subsidizing BYD in order for them to destroy every other Chinese car manufacturer? I think the Chinese government has far less convoluted and costly schemes to control which businesses live and which die. If I understand it correctly, your theory is like saying the US set such high tariffs and sanctions so Chinese companies adapt and get so strong they can eventually outcompete any US company and break free of any dependency.
elzbardico 2y ago
BYD is extremelly efficient, but BYD is also beneficiary of an extensive state directed industrial policy. And let's not forget that China keeps their currency intentionally devalued against the west, while the US now have the problem of an over-valued currency. Just to add some perspective. It is still cheaper than anything Detroit makes, but 10.000 USD is a bit misleading if you ignore currency policies, subsides, incentives and regulatory differentials.

Cumpiler69 2y ago

> even with a 100% tariff You're making it sounds like 100% is the highest possible ceiling for a tariff, when it's a number arbitrarily set to fulfill a specific agenda and can be infinitely adjusted. Of course if you protect your domestic car industry too much it will slowly become uncompetitive and irelevant on the international free market.

sofixa 2y ago
> You're making it sounds like 100% is the highest possible ceiling for a tariff, when it's a number arbitrarily set to fulfill a specific agenda and can be infinitely adjusted. Yep, the tariffs Boeing got on Bombardier's C-Series that were the final nail in the coffin of that program and Bombardier as a serious player, and gifted a great new jet to Airbus, were 300%.
willio58 2y ago
I hate how true this is. The US might as well peg the tarrif to infinity on any cars coming from China because at this rate that's essentially what we're doing.

yorwba 2y ago

As your article points out, it sells for about $20k in Mexico and Brazil. They're dumping at $10k in China to destroy other Chinese car manufacturers and profitability is not required until subsidies run out. But in other countries those other Chinese manufacturers are mostly not even competing, allowing BYD to price higher and turn a decent profit. If a 100% tariff means they only make Chinese-level profit from US sales, it might not be worth it.

HPsquared 2y ago
How much subsidy are they receiving?
- fransje26 2y ago
  O(10^9)
  - fooker 2y ago
    That's a cute way to write O(1) :)
    - wizzwizz4 2y ago
      The variable in O(10^9) is the numerical base.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    USD or CNY? Tbh neither of those numbers is very large for a car company.
    - fransje26 2y ago
      USD, per year. Which is about the R&D budget of major manufacturers.
close04 2y ago
> to destroy other Chinese car manufacturers and profitability is not required until subsidies run out So the Chinese government is subsidizing BYD in order for them to destroy every other Chinese car manufacturer? I think the Chinese government has far less convoluted and costly schemes to control which businesses live and which die. If I understand it correctly, your theory is like saying the US set such high tariffs and sanctions so Chinese companies adapt and get so strong they can eventually outcompete any US company and break free of any dependency.

elzbardico 2y ago

BYD is extremelly efficient, but BYD is also beneficiary of an extensive state directed industrial policy. And let's not forget that China keeps their currency intentionally devalued against the west, while the US now have the problem of an over-valued currency. Just to add some perspective. It is still cheaper than anything Detroit makes, but 10.000 USD is a bit misleading if you ignore currency policies, subsides, incentives and regulatory differentials.