4 ms·

It's already been settled that the trump dossier from 2016 was a work of fiction. Why did Putin take crimea under Obama's watch, parts of Ukraine under Biden's

It's already been settled that the trump dossier from 2016 was a work of fiction. Why did Putin take crimea under Obama's watch, parts of Ukraine under Biden's watch, but then not make any huge moves like those while his "asset" was in the white house?

dxdenton 2y ago
[flagged]
- inpdx 2y ago
  If you believe otherwise...you aggressively haven't been paying attention for the last 8 years.
aguaviva 2y ago
Because he needed all that time (2014-2022) to build up his forces and cash reserves. Also, he needed a green light. Which was provided in the form of the chaotic Afghanistan pullout in 2021. Not that he was counting on it -- but once it went through, it seems very likely that tipped the scales in his mind in favor of deciding to actually go through with the full-scale invasion in 2022.
- burningChrome 2y ago
  Its also been widely reported that when Trump first met Putin he said if he invaded Ukraine, he would turn Moscow and several other cities into a parking lot. Trump in several interviews has said he warned Putin not to do it, that he would pay a very, very heavy cost and he would see to it that he would. This is all Trump had to do. He was able to leverage the media's reporting on him that he was reckless, dangerous and prone to rash behavior and they were convinced he was going to start WWIII with? Yeap, you guessed it, the Russians. Putin believed what the media were reporting because Trump himself had verbally warned him. He didn't need forces and cash. He did what OP recommended, he threatened Putin with force and Putin complied and just waited out Trump. It was a gift that Biden was elected in 2020 and if you go through the news reports, literally months after Biden was elected, Russia started massing troops on the border and readying their troops to invade. Its a strange coincidence that they didn't invade in the four years Trump was in office. He leaves and less than a year later, Russia is preparing to invade? C'mon man. Your timeline is completely wrong. - Biden's inauguration took place on January 2021. - The Russians were amassing troops by December of 2021 (less than a year after he took office). - The Afghan pullout wasn't until the Summer of 2021 - The Russian officially invaded in February of 2022 The green light wasn't needing forces and cash built up, it was Trump leaving office. The Afghan pullout had no effect on when they were going to invade since they were already massing troops and air support to the border regions where they finally launched their invasion from. Its not like the Russians decided to invade during the Afghan disaster as you insinuated, the invasion plans were already established by then. Again, the tipping point was Trump leaving office.
  - tenuousemphasis 2y ago
    Surely you should be able to provide a source for the claim that Trump threatened Putin over Ukraine.
    - teractiveodular 2y ago
      Here's the man himself claiming this in his inimitably eloquent style: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-putin-no-way-ukraine-musk_n_66bb6507e4b04b3eb25275eb https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-putin-no-way-ukraine-mu... "No way." "Way."
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        If all we have to go on is the man himself -- that means it's a lie of course, like nearly everything else he says.
        dgfitz 2y ago
        Least they posted a source. Credit where it is due.
    - alecco 2y ago
      Not op. But in 2018 Trump did scold live on camera the German leaders for buying gas from Russia. "Germany is completely controlled by Russia". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpwkeTBwgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpwkeTBwgs NOTE: I mostly don't like Trump. But the "Russiagate" angle is ridiculous.
      - timeon 2y ago
        This is moving the goalpost a bit.
    - burningChrome 2y ago
      Here you go: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17852964/donald-trump-threaten-bomb-moscow-russia-invade-ukraine/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17852964/donald-trump-threaten... “They're all saying oh he's a nuclear power, it's like they're afraid of him,” Trump said in a recording of the phone conversation with Daly. “You know, he was a friend of mine, I got along great with him. I say, Vladimir, if you do it, we're hitting Moscow. We're going to hit Moscow. And he sort of believed me like 5 per cent, 10 per cent - that's all you need.” He's also said the same thing in several interview. That he told Putin he would make it very difficult to take Ukraine and it cost them economically and militarily. You can infer that meant could mean several things depending on your point of view.
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  Doubtful. He needed another 8 years after an annexing Crimea to build up the Russian army? Why would he need cash reserves if he has a toadie in the white house? Imagine how quickly ukriane would have collapsed if the US was not providing support, and the US was preventing European nations from providing support. And then imagine how well off Russia would be if there were no sanctions placed on it by America. All in all your point doesn't make sense. You don't get an asset sitting in the oval office and then not use them.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Why would he need cash reserves if he has a toadie in the white house? You may want to think about the chronology again. And then ask yourself if your statement above still makes sense.
    - IncreasePosts 2y ago
      You're saying Russia couldn't have invaded Ukraine successfully in 2018, if the US and Europe were not providing support, and no sanctions were levied on Russia?
      - aguaviva 2y ago
        You're saying Russia couldn't have invaded Ukraine successfully in 2018 They didn't invade successfully in 2022, either. Meaning they were never able to invade successfully at any year before that. The whole war is a gigantic delusion for them, remember. But as for evidence that they needed about 7-8 years to build their resources to a point where its regime thought they could invade successfully: One of the pieces of evidence in favor of this view is the graph of the CBRF's (that's the Central Bank of Russia) holdings of foreign cash reserves, over the past 20 years. It shows oscillation or decline up until 2014, and then from 2014-2022, steady increases each year, resulting in a net increase from about $100b to $300b by 2022. Military analyst say that Russia engaged in similar purchasing patterns internally (building up its reserves of shells and missile stocks, for example).
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
a2128 2y ago
Trump says that he wants to finish "fundamentally reevaluating NATO's purpose and NATO's mission", and "the greatest threat to Western Civilization today is not Russia. [...] It's the Marxists who would have us become a Godless nation worshipping at the altar of race, and gender, and environment." I take that as a pretty clear stance that he wants to help Russia this term by dismantling or weakening NATO and creating too much infighting within America to worry about defending allies from Russia Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20240913225017/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-preventing-world-war-iii https://web.archive.org/web/20240913225017/https://www.donal...

dxdenton 2y ago

[flagged]

inpdx 2y ago
If you believe otherwise...you aggressively haven't been paying attention for the last 8 years.

aguaviva 2y ago

Because he needed all that time (2014-2022) to build up his forces and cash reserves. Also, he needed a green light. Which was provided in the form of the chaotic Afghanistan pullout in 2021. Not that he was counting on it -- but once it went through, it seems very likely that tipped the scales in his mind in favor of deciding to actually go through with the full-scale invasion in 2022.

burningChrome 2y ago
Its also been widely reported that when Trump first met Putin he said if he invaded Ukraine, he would turn Moscow and several other cities into a parking lot. Trump in several interviews has said he warned Putin not to do it, that he would pay a very, very heavy cost and he would see to it that he would. This is all Trump had to do. He was able to leverage the media's reporting on him that he was reckless, dangerous and prone to rash behavior and they were convinced he was going to start WWIII with? Yeap, you guessed it, the Russians. Putin believed what the media were reporting because Trump himself had verbally warned him. He didn't need forces and cash. He did what OP recommended, he threatened Putin with force and Putin complied and just waited out Trump. It was a gift that Biden was elected in 2020 and if you go through the news reports, literally months after Biden was elected, Russia started massing troops on the border and readying their troops to invade. Its a strange coincidence that they didn't invade in the four years Trump was in office. He leaves and less than a year later, Russia is preparing to invade? C'mon man. Your timeline is completely wrong. - Biden's inauguration took place on January 2021. - The Russians were amassing troops by December of 2021 (less than a year after he took office). - The Afghan pullout wasn't until the Summer of 2021 - The Russian officially invaded in February of 2022 The green light wasn't needing forces and cash built up, it was Trump leaving office. The Afghan pullout had no effect on when they were going to invade since they were already massing troops and air support to the border regions where they finally launched their invasion from. Its not like the Russians decided to invade during the Afghan disaster as you insinuated, the invasion plans were already established by then. Again, the tipping point was Trump leaving office.
- tenuousemphasis 2y ago
  Surely you should be able to provide a source for the claim that Trump threatened Putin over Ukraine.
  - teractiveodular 2y ago
    Here's the man himself claiming this in his inimitably eloquent style: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-putin-no-way-ukraine-musk_n_66bb6507e4b04b3eb25275eb https://www.huffpost.com/entry/trump-putin-no-way-ukraine-mu... "No way." "Way."
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      If all we have to go on is the man himself -- that means it's a lie of course, like nearly everything else he says.
      - dgfitz 2y ago
        Least they posted a source. Credit where it is due.
  - alecco 2y ago
    Not op. But in 2018 Trump did scold live on camera the German leaders for buying gas from Russia. "Germany is completely controlled by Russia". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpwkeTBwgs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JpwkeTBwgs NOTE: I mostly don't like Trump. But the "Russiagate" angle is ridiculous.
    - timeon 2y ago
      This is moving the goalpost a bit.
  - burningChrome 2y ago
    Here you go: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17852964/donald-trump-threaten-bomb-moscow-russia-invade-ukraine/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17852964/donald-trump-threaten... “They're all saying oh he's a nuclear power, it's like they're afraid of him,” Trump said in a recording of the phone conversation with Daly. “You know, he was a friend of mine, I got along great with him. I say, Vladimir, if you do it, we're hitting Moscow. We're going to hit Moscow. And he sort of believed me like 5 per cent, 10 per cent - that's all you need.” He's also said the same thing in several interview. That he told Putin he would make it very difficult to take Ukraine and it cost them economically and militarily. You can infer that meant could mean several things depending on your point of view.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
Doubtful. He needed another 8 years after an annexing Crimea to build up the Russian army? Why would he need cash reserves if he has a toadie in the white house? Imagine how quickly ukriane would have collapsed if the US was not providing support, and the US was preventing European nations from providing support. And then imagine how well off Russia would be if there were no sanctions placed on it by America. All in all your point doesn't make sense. You don't get an asset sitting in the oval office and then not use them.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Why would he need cash reserves if he has a toadie in the white house? You may want to think about the chronology again. And then ask yourself if your statement above still makes sense.
  - IncreasePosts 2y ago
    You're saying Russia couldn't have invaded Ukraine successfully in 2018, if the US and Europe were not providing support, and no sanctions were levied on Russia?
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      You're saying Russia couldn't have invaded Ukraine successfully in 2018 They didn't invade successfully in 2022, either. Meaning they were never able to invade successfully at any year before that. The whole war is a gigantic delusion for them, remember. But as for evidence that they needed about 7-8 years to build their resources to a point where its regime thought they could invade successfully: One of the pieces of evidence in favor of this view is the graph of the CBRF's (that's the Central Bank of Russia) holdings of foreign cash reserves, over the past 20 years. It shows oscillation or decline up until 2014, and then from 2014-2022, steady increases each year, resulting in a net increase from about $100b to $300b by 2022. Military analyst say that Russia engaged in similar purchasing patterns internally (building up its reserves of shells and missile stocks, for example).

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

a2128 2y ago

Trump says that he wants to finish "fundamentally reevaluating NATO's purpose and NATO's mission", and "the greatest threat to Western Civilization today is not Russia. [...] It's the Marxists who would have us become a Godless nation worshipping at the altar of race, and gender, and environment." I take that as a pretty clear stance that he wants to help Russia this term by dismantling or weakening NATO and creating too much infighting within America to worry about defending allies from Russia Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20240913225017/https://www.donaldjtrump.com/agenda47/agenda47-preventing-world-war-iii https://web.archive.org/web/20240913225017/https://www.donal...