4 ms·

It’s not really mandatory, you can use other browsers on both iOS and macOS

fenomas 2y ago
Safari is mandatory to have on iOS - it's preinstalled and can't be removed. It's also propped up in the sense of being built on apis and OS features that other browsers aren't allowed to use. I mean, imagine if DOJ forced Apple to divest Safari and treat it the same as other browsers. What would happen? Parsimonious answer: the same thing that happened everywhere else.
gregable 2y ago
Except you can't. Every browser on iOS uses Safari's rendering engine. Chrome/Firefox on iOS are effectively reskinned Safari. This is an apple requirement. The rendering engine being the important part here when talking about standards and such.
- WD-42 2y ago
  The only browser that seems to be able to get around this is Orion. No idea how they are doing it.
  - dcow 2y ago
    Orion is WebKit. Safari’s rendering engine is WebKit.
    - travisgriggs 2y ago
      I tried Orion (m1 MBP) recently. From about 3wks ago til a few days ago. I liked the UI. But there were a lot of pages that didn’t work correctly. I persevered for a while. But gave up a few days ago and went back to Brave.
    - WD-42 2y ago
      I know it’s WebKit. But they are somehow allowing extensions, which none of the other iOS browsers has managed afaik.
      - dcow 2y ago
        Likely just emulating/providing the javascript interfaces needed for FF and Chrome extensions to run.
  - freediver 2y ago
    When there is will, there is way!
- dcow 2y ago
  Every time this discussion happens a non-trivial number of people reveal they’ve fallen into this trap of believing other browsers are allowed on iOS. Feels like a consumer protection issue, at some level.
- fenomas 2y ago
  > effectively reskinned Safari It's worse than that, even - IIRC the renderer that other browsers have to use is slower and more limited than the one Safari uses. So other browsers are effectively reskinned hobbled Safari.
  - EasyMark 2y ago
    A rendering engine is not a browser. Are all the Chrome engine variants really just Chrome in a skin? I don’t think so they all have unique properties that set them apart. As do Orion, Firefox, brave, etc on iOS
    - fenomas 2y ago
      I wouldn't consider other chromium browsers reskinned because they're using the chromium engine as a dependency, by choice. They can customize it as much or as little as they want (and I'd imagine they do to various extents). Browsers on iOS can't - they are required (legally, not technologically) to use (a worse version of) Safari's engine. Chrome for iOS is not the browser that the chrome team wants to distribute, it's a browser Apple made that has been customized to the extent that Apple allows it to be customized. What is that if not reskinned?

Safari is mandatory to have on iOS - it's preinstalled and can't be removed. It's also propped up in the sense of being built on apis and OS features that other browsers aren't allowed to use. I mean, imagine if DOJ forced Apple to divest Safari and treat it the same as other browsers. What would happen? Parsimonious answer: the same thing that happened everywhere else.

gregable 2y ago

Except you can't. Every browser on iOS uses Safari's rendering engine. Chrome/Firefox on iOS are effectively reskinned Safari. This is an apple requirement. The rendering engine being the important part here when talking about standards and such.

WD-42 2y ago
The only browser that seems to be able to get around this is Orion. No idea how they are doing it.
- dcow 2y ago
  Orion is WebKit. Safari’s rendering engine is WebKit.
  - travisgriggs 2y ago
    I tried Orion (m1 MBP) recently. From about 3wks ago til a few days ago. I liked the UI. But there were a lot of pages that didn’t work correctly. I persevered for a while. But gave up a few days ago and went back to Brave.
  - WD-42 2y ago
    I know it’s WebKit. But they are somehow allowing extensions, which none of the other iOS browsers has managed afaik.
    - dcow 2y ago
      Likely just emulating/providing the javascript interfaces needed for FF and Chrome extensions to run.
- freediver 2y ago
  When there is will, there is way!
dcow 2y ago
Every time this discussion happens a non-trivial number of people reveal they’ve fallen into this trap of believing other browsers are allowed on iOS. Feels like a consumer protection issue, at some level.
fenomas 2y ago
> effectively reskinned Safari It's worse than that, even - IIRC the renderer that other browsers have to use is slower and more limited than the one Safari uses. So other browsers are effectively reskinned hobbled Safari.
- EasyMark 2y ago
  A rendering engine is not a browser. Are all the Chrome engine variants really just Chrome in a skin? I don’t think so they all have unique properties that set them apart. As do Orion, Firefox, brave, etc on iOS
  - fenomas 2y ago
    I wouldn't consider other chromium browsers reskinned because they're using the chromium engine as a dependency, by choice. They can customize it as much or as little as they want (and I'd imagine they do to various extents). Browsers on iOS can't - they are required (legally, not technologically) to use (a worse version of) Safari's engine. Chrome for iOS is not the browser that the chrome team wants to distribute, it's a browser Apple made that has been customized to the extent that Apple allows it to be customized. What is that if not reskinned?