8 ms·

Why I hate the index finger (1980)

258 points by consumer451 2y ago

MrMcCall 2y ago
I'm rather ambivalent about the index finger. The middle finger, however...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- rob74 2y ago
  Look at it this way: if there was no index finger, you wouldn't have a middle finger either...
  - azangru 2y ago
    > if there was no index finger, you wouldn't have a middle finger either You would have two :-)
  - valicord 2y ago
    No, you'd actually have two middle fingers then: upper middle finger and lower middle finger. Just think of the possibilities!
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    I guess if you lose all but one finger on a hand then, among other things, you will be unable to point at anything with it without flipping someone off.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      Call it a feature, not a bug ;-)
- dogman1050 2y ago
  My ring finger is on my mind presently. It's turned into a trigger finger from riding a stiff clutch motorcycle for a week nine months ago. If bent too close to my palm it doesn't come back without help. It's interfering with my Spiderman web shooter operation. Must have it looked at.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    That's interesting. My wife's cooking has done it to her ring finger as well. She spoke to a hand orthopedist, but he said that she'd be out of action for weeks if they did the procedute that shaves it, so they just gave her a shot of roids to help it calm down. They can do that up to three times before they need to do the shaving procedure. Good luck with it, Spidey ;-)
  - engineer_22 2y ago
    Having experienced mallet finger in the past, I might consider wearing a splint for a couple weeks to let it heal
gnabgib 2y ago
(1980)
- consumer451 2y ago
  Updated, thanks. But the hilarity is timeless.
isoprophlex 2y ago
That was unexpectedly hilarious, wow.
- consumer451 2y ago
  Is there much of this type of thing hiding on PubMed? Not a source I had previously associated with top-tier humor.
  - jaggederest 2y ago
    I believe every year The Canadian Medical Association Journal publishes a mostly-humorous edition around Christmas. And there's a long history of satire in NEJM, BMJ, The Lancet, etc I particularly enjoy this one (PDF): http://cda.psych.uiuc.edu/multivariate_fall_2013/salmon_fmri.pdf http://cda.psych.uiuc.edu/multivariate_fall_2013/salmon_fmri...
    - consumer451 2y ago
      Thanks. I think I found another good one, though more technical than OP. > The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute https://www.bmj.com/content/331/7531/1498 https://www.bmj.com/content/331/7531/1498
    - genewitch 2y ago
      that... isn't... satire. It's written in a funny way because it was a "silly"[0] experiment, but it showed a real issue with fMRI. > What we can conclude is that random noise in the EPI timeseries may yield spurious results if multiple testing is not controlled for. In a functional image volume of 60,000-130,000 voxels the probability of a false discovery is almost certain. [0] silly as in "there's no way this fMRI will show the frozen salmon as alive, right?"
      - jaggederest 2y ago
        I think we run into the definition of satire and parody, here. Satire is "the truth, in the most extreme way", so I think it definitely qualifies to very, very seriously examine a dead salmon with an fMRI to see if it has brain activity. It's not a parody - they actually did the study, and the results were as described, not an imitation journal article ala The Onion.
DiggyJohnson 2y ago
Worth the read. I am so worried that we as a society have lost the ability to write well, and risk losing the ability to recognize and appreciate good writing. Rote professional written communication skills are changing and diminishing. The written word is generally seen to be a burden. Anyways, bittersweet thoughts from a really funny article.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  This place really is good practice for all sorts of skills: expressive, physical, mental, emotional, and even spiritual. And beyond learning about various zones of my beloved nerdtech, there are very subtle levels of sociology, anthropology, and psychology on display here, too. But yeah, the decline is real, my friend. I declined to use IRC for all these years, and I'm afraid its descendant, texting, has not improved our society's level of anything beyond the most mundane trivial pursuits.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  I think this is a poor example of "society writing well". It reads like a medical journal. I personally hate it and couldn't get through it.
- nuz 2y ago
  Well this is from the 80s when writing was still quite respected and practiced
- blt 2y ago
  Thanks to LLMs, the death of stylish writing in non-literary fields is assured. I agree, many people seem to view writing as a burden. I have only met a handful of people that can lay out a complex argument from scratch in speech alone. For most of us, writing is thinking. If you avoid writing, your ideas will remain murky forever.
- codexb 2y ago
  Up until recently, there always seemed to be a marked difference between the way people spoke vs how they conveyed thoughts in writing. These days, it often feels like most writing is just conversational and stream of consciousness and differs little from how many people speak. It always makes me curious how we generally view the people of antiquity as speaking very eloquently and properly, but that's probably because we only have writings from their time, not recordings of how they actually spoke.
Mistletoe 2y ago
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-our-team-overturned-the-90-year-old-metaphor-of-a-little-man-in-the-brain-who-controls-movement1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-our-team-over... It’s really important, ok?
rob74 2y ago
All those cartoons had it right all along: four fingers per hand is more than enough!
- tomcam 2y ago
  You try to find the matching kid gloves, pal
  - mst 2y ago
    I have no trivial solution to this, but "make friends with somebody who likes knitting things" will probably work well. (I wear a wrist brace on my left arm a lot of the time so I need significantly lopsided gloves and that's the only solution I've found to *that* problem)
- humanfromearth9 2y ago
  Yeah, but maybe this should be a bit more specific and state that one should always be the thumb. And then, why have we evolved with 5 of 4 is enough? Is it for redundancy, in case one fails? If yes, why is there no second thumb?
  - jessekv 2y ago
    Chameleons agree with you. https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/z7700105/800wm/Z7700105-Foot_of_a_chameleon.jpg https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/z7700105/800wm/Z7700105...
- layer8 2y ago
  GenAI models disagree. ;)
iwontberude 2y ago
Whoever wrote this was creating satire and I don’t even know if they realize it.
- consumer451 2y ago
  People still surprise me, but given this part, it's hard for me to imagine that the author was not being satirical on purpose: > Obviously, I do not like arrogant disabled index digits and believe they should be removed if they cannot be restored to a functional status. There is no in-between with index fingers. > To me, index fingers portray a hideous personality reflecting conceit and pantywaist attitudes. In essence, they are smart-ass digits we can often do without. If I had to lose a finger and had my choice, I would choose first my nondominant hand index ray and next the other index. I find index digits easy to hate and sometimes hard to love. Although, maybe the author's point was serious?
  - idlewords 2y ago
    If you read through carefully, the author is making a serious point: that in many cases of injury to the index finger, it is better functionally and cosmetically to remove it. He cites examples of patients with chronic pain or burning in the stump, and patients who have the remaining portion of the finger permanently extended, facilitating re-injury. I'm no fingerologist but I do appreciate anyone who can make serious points in such a funny way.
    - consumer451 2y ago
      I definitely noticed that, but if the goal was to convey a serious point, then would that be best served by humorous delivery? That's the confusion I was trying to express by saying: "Although, maybe the author's point was serious?"
      - dnsco 2y ago
        The point the author is making seems to be against the consensus of other hand specialists (this is at least my perception, as someone who has an index finger issue and has asked specialists "can't I just cut it off?"). The author is basically (and provocatively) saying "Are you kidding me? You really think it's useful for people to continue to be burdened with non-functional appendages?" to his colleagues, and I think the humor is likely to get them to engage with his thesis rather than dismiss it off hand. I have sent this to several doctor friends, and the writing style prompted them to send it to several more, so, I think it's quite likely that tone served the author's point.
dnsco 2y ago
I partially amputated (at the joint closest to the nail) my index finger a decade ago, and it’s been a huge impediment. This has motivated me to seek out some other opinions. Sent it to some doctor friends and they are floored by the writing style as well.
- sph 2y ago
  It's hard for me to rationalise that a few cms off the index could be a huge impediment, so can you please share where you find yourself impaired the most? I imagine gripping things, like a glass, should be more or less unaffected.
  - dnsco 2y ago
    TL;DR nerves are really weird. It tingles all the time. There's a ton of "referred pain". It frequently feels like there is a dental drill going of in my face, when it's not painful, it's a a persistent nagging tickle, on my cheek/temple/around my eye. It gets reynauds phenomena, my house is 68F 20C right now, but my finger is freezing/painful because of how cold it is, this happens pretty much any time I wash my hand, so even in the summer when there's a slight breeze I'm hiding my hand in my pocket for warmth. When I bang it on things it really hurts, and like this paper says it's extended basically all the time when I'm trying to use my hand for other things. When I use it to grab things, it feels really weird, so I've kind of trained myself to keep it out of the way. This paper says cut it off, which the few other orthopedists I've talked to have not advised, but at this point, it's been a decade, and seeing a doctor be like "dude, the thing that's only there to make your hand more precise, is actually making your hand way less precise and detracting from your quality of life, cut it off", is a perspective I'm happy to hear. I manage mostly alright, but it's been a decade of major annoyance at best.
    - Zancarius 2y ago
      This is really fascinating to me, because it explains some things. I have a friend who crushed the tip of one of her fingers, but it wasn't amputated. She's described sensations very similar to yours, presumably from nerve damage. I never asked a bunch of questions about it, and now I wish I had after reading this post. If it ever comes up in conversation again, may I share a link to your comment with her?
ninalanyon 2y ago
"When you make the patient your enthusiastic ally in reconstructive surgery, you can get him to fly with six or eight small feathers." That is just brilliant. The article was an object lesson in clarity and humanity.
navigate8310 2y ago
Quite a jarring and informative article. I had no clue how finicky muscles are and bad amputation may result net negative results to the patient.
leoc 2y ago
Probably most experienced drumkit players don't generally use their index fingers either (except when playing the ride cymbal).
- BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
  It’s useful for fast finger strokes
fellowniusmonk 2y ago
I mean if the middle finger is that versatile and important it's great that we have less important fingers providing a buffer on both sides of it. Ablative fingering, what an innovation.
JohnMakin 2y ago
As an older competitive gamer, I liked the part of this that describes how on injury or amputation the middle finger will quickly take over the index duties - I’ve noticed over the years that when my “trigger” finger on a controller is experiencing tendonitis and I have to rest it, that my middle finger performs just as adequately and I barely notice. This has always surprised me.
- greenmartian 2y ago
  I've got the inverse problem. Middle is my trigger finger. And when it's tired, I fall back to using the index finger. With games that are sensitive to analog trigger levels (e.g. car throttle), it's extremely noticeable how much my precision degrades when using the index. Always chalked it up to not enough practice. After reading this paper, I feel somewhat vindicated. It's not my fault, it's the finger's.
onelesd 2y ago
This article is giving Kurt Vonnegut and I love it.
flint 2y ago
I play string bass. Many suggest you focus your attention through the thumb of your left hand as you practice.
picometer 2y ago
I’m a violinist (amateur but play regularly). When I have an important note, which is held for a while and needs vibrato, I frequently decide to shift my left hand position so that my middle finger is responsible, rather than the index finger. It feels stronger, easier to nail the intonation (pitch) with precision, and freer to perform the desired type of vibrato. (String players do vibrato by wiggling the left hand finger, which affects the pitch and overtones / oscillation modes of the string.) In fact, I tend to avoid using the index finger on notes that require vibrato. That preference might be explained here, by the precision/strength combination. I tried holding a hammer as described in the author’s hammer exercise, and there’s similarity, though it requires much more weight-holding. The left hand doesn’t hold the weight of the violin (consider a cello or a guitar with shoulder strap), but a little grip strength is required to securely hold down the string, especially with vibrato. Overall, fascinating article. I feel quite motivated to read more on hand anatomy and biomechanics.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  Sounds like the precise opposite of B.B. King doing his famed vibrato, by 'twilling' (?) around his index finger.
- litenboll 2y ago
  Similar on guitar with bends I think. I feel like using the index finger is very awkward, I use the middle finger or ring finger (when what I'm playing allows it) rather than the index finger. Typically with the next finger behind to guide and provide stability/strength.
  - omershapira 2y ago
    The proprioception on the index finger while bending on guitar is worse for me than locking the ring finger and using the wrist to control the magnitude of the bend. Useless backfill-ass finger.
throw4847285 2y ago
Well it worked for Roland Deschain...
- excalibur 2y ago
  IIRC Roland lost his middle finger as well and had to pull the trigger with his ring finger.
  - psunavy03 2y ago
    "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind."
    - throw4847285 2y ago
      Nobody does it like King. Despite not being considered in the canon of literary fiction, I feel like he's going to endure as one of the most imaginative, thrilling, and flat out brilliant writers of genre fiction, alongside Christie, Tolkien, and Philip K Dick.
Ancalagon 2y ago
Hilariously, I anecdotally also can relate to this. I'm a competitive powerlifter and the calluses on my hands and fingers are most pronounced on the middle, ring, and pinky - with very little on the index.
- blharr 2y ago
  Huh, now that you mention it, after rock climbing, I similarly got the least callused on my index finger. Even the base of my index near the palm is much less worn than the rest of the non-thumb fingers
- hawski 2y ago
  I do pullups sometimes and I also observed this. I wonder if it is related to how index finger is not really in-line with the arm. When I look at my hand I can see that if U would draw extension lines from edges of my forearm they would contain middle, ring and pinky fingers, but not really the index finger.
ossopite 2y ago
I could relate to the claims in the article: for the last 6 months I've had soreness and pain in my left index fingertip that has confounded the doctors I've seen about it, and all that's helped is to avoid using it. Perhaps someone here has experienced something similar? When typing I feel pain initially at the fingertip where nail meets skin, which worsens and radiates around to the middle finger side of the fingernail after more use. Even when typing without using the index finger, stretching the finger to keep it away from the keyboard induces some pain after a while. If I cut the nail very short, I think I notice some tenderness and loss of sensation in a spot near the middle of the skin just under the nail edge. I think the pain developed over time while heavily using a split mechanical keyboard (kinesis freestyle edge) with poor typing technique and putting repeated pressure on the tip and side of the finger, but it has not gone away after switching to something more comfortable (kinesis 360). I don't remember any significant injury happening. The only visual sign is that the skin seems strongly attached to the nail near its edge, there is minimal free edge compared to what my other fingernails (which are all short) have. Actually that is somewhat true of the other index finger, but to a much lesser extent. There is nothing apparently abnormal about the skin under the nail but perhaps any issue isn't visible. Interestingly, the pain seems worse when my hands are warmer. X-rays/MRI/ultrasound scans showed nothing abnormal apparently. All my internet searching for an explanation has yielded nothing, hence writing this comment to see if anyone can help.
- akdor1154 2y ago
  Unsure about the new one, but on a mechanical keyboard, stick rubber o-rings under all the keycaps to make impacts much softer.
  - ossopite 2y ago
    I did actually try that, and it felt like it helped for a brief while, but not for long
- Superfud 2y ago
  This is probably the very first thing you tried, but maybe don't cut the nail quite so short? Recommend upgrading to sharp and precise nail cutters as they make it easier to control exact nail length.
tomcam 2y ago
Someday my arthritis will get me beaten to a pulp by a gang member or, more likely, a cop. I seem to get itches on my face a lot and scratching with my index finger hurts too much. I use my middle finger instead. I try to be situationally aware but it’s only going to take one lapse…
nurbl 2y ago
The hammer example made me remember something. I did some Aikido long ago, and the instructor spent quite a lot of time showing us how to grip things like sticks. As I remember it, instead of the instinctive way of just forming a fist around it, we should instead start from the little finger, wrapping the fingers one by one, but letting the index finger actually rest more along the handle than wrapping it. That way, supposedly, the grip is just as good, but more flexible and the index finger can help with control.
- robaato 2y ago
  This is a classic way to teach use of a sword. It's also easy to feel what happens. Compare the feeling when gripping with first two fingers vs 3rd and 4th. With first 2, you will feel tension along top of forearm, whereas with the other 2 it is the underneath of forearm. This affects flexibility, softness, and thus ability to manipulate the sword.
  - williamscales 2y ago
    This tracks with my experience fencing using a pistol grip. The index finger mostly gets in the way and I even injured mine using it too much. The middle finger is the main driver of grip and control.
  - js2 2y ago
    Similarly, holding a chef's knife you wrap your thumb and index around the blade, with the remaining three fingers around the handle: https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/how-to-hold-a-knife-the-right-way-and-become-a-better-cook-because-of-it-article https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/how-to-hold-a-knife...
- hinkley 2y ago
  Most martial arts teach something like this. Typical civilian relies too heavily on the index finger when grabbing for instance your arm, and that makes it easier to twist out of the grapple, by using the shoulder and the bicep to lever out along the line halfway between the thumb and the index finger. Usually these are stronger muscles than the forearm, possible exception of rock climbers.
stevage 2y ago
Makes me think of Tommy Caldwell, top-tier rock climber who created so many of the iconic routes in Yosemite Valley. Despite losing an index finger in his 20s.
dumbfounder 2y ago
"In spite of its singular ability of precision, it is not difficult to feel ashamed of the index finger." "To me, index fingers portray a hideous personality reflecting conceit and pantywaist attitudes. In essence, they are smart-ass digits we can often do without. If I had to lose a finger and had my choice, I would choose first my nondominant hand index ray and next the other index. I find index digits easy to hate and sometimes hard to love." LOL
- grahamj 2y ago
  yeah TIL pantywaist is a word
grahamj 2y ago
Great article. Unfortunately the author overlooked a critical use case for the index finger: the Vulcan salute.
theultdev 2y ago
When I was teaching my wife how to play shooters I had to study how I was using my left hand on the keyboard. I noticed that the WASD placement excluded the middle finger. Once you lift it up and keep it hovering, the pinky hitting A, the ring hitting W and S and the index hitting D, it's very easy to dance them. I find the middle finger much less responsive than other fingers due to tendon connections (it is much stronger though as another user noted for bowling) I am left handed but I do use the PC like a "normal" person. She is right handed and she played noticeably better once doing this. The other major thing was to avoid cross talk between hands. Full aiming related things on the right, full movement related things on the left. (grenades, aimed abilities, etc. on mouse keys) Related note: in paintball, you feather the trigger with the index and middle finger as they are the fastest. The pinky is also fast but the ring is so slow that doesn't work. Middle and ring is slow for the same reason. TLDR: ring is your muscle finger, other fingers are more agile.
duderific 2y ago
As a competitive bowler, the index finger is not used at all. The middle and ring fingers are inserted into the finger holes. I think it has to do with the connection to forearm muscles as described in the paper - the middle and ring fingers provide the most grip strength which is required to provide torque to the ball.
nhlx2 2y ago
I’ve always preferred holding a guitar plectrum with my middle finger and thumb instead of the usual index and thumb. I always felt guilty about it since I’ve noticed professionals seem to always use the index finger.
michaelhoney 2y ago
I use my middle fingers for braking my mountain bike: my index fingers don’t feel up to the task.

258 points by consumer451 2y ago

MrMcCall 2y ago

I'm rather ambivalent about the index finger. The middle finger, however...

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rob74 2y ago
Look at it this way: if there was no index finger, you wouldn't have a middle finger either...
- azangru 2y ago
  > if there was no index finger, you wouldn't have a middle finger either You would have two :-)
- valicord 2y ago
  No, you'd actually have two middle fingers then: upper middle finger and lower middle finger. Just think of the possibilities!
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  I guess if you lose all but one finger on a hand then, among other things, you will be unable to point at anything with it without flipping someone off.
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    Call it a feature, not a bug ;-)
dogman1050 2y ago
My ring finger is on my mind presently. It's turned into a trigger finger from riding a stiff clutch motorcycle for a week nine months ago. If bent too close to my palm it doesn't come back without help. It's interfering with my Spiderman web shooter operation. Must have it looked at.
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  That's interesting. My wife's cooking has done it to her ring finger as well. She spoke to a hand orthopedist, but he said that she'd be out of action for weeks if they did the procedute that shaves it, so they just gave her a shot of roids to help it calm down. They can do that up to three times before they need to do the shaving procedure. Good luck with it, Spidey ;-)
- engineer_22 2y ago
  Having experienced mallet finger in the past, I might consider wearing a splint for a couple weeks to let it heal

gnabgib 2y ago

(1980)

consumer451 2y ago
Updated, thanks. But the hilarity is timeless.

isoprophlex 2y ago

That was unexpectedly hilarious, wow.

consumer451 2y ago
Is there much of this type of thing hiding on PubMed? Not a source I had previously associated with top-tier humor.
- jaggederest 2y ago
  I believe every year The Canadian Medical Association Journal publishes a mostly-humorous edition around Christmas. And there's a long history of satire in NEJM, BMJ, The Lancet, etc I particularly enjoy this one (PDF): http://cda.psych.uiuc.edu/multivariate_fall_2013/salmon_fmri.pdf http://cda.psych.uiuc.edu/multivariate_fall_2013/salmon_fmri...
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Thanks. I think I found another good one, though more technical than OP. > The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute https://www.bmj.com/content/331/7531/1498 https://www.bmj.com/content/331/7531/1498
  - genewitch 2y ago
    that... isn't... satire. It's written in a funny way because it was a "silly"[0] experiment, but it showed a real issue with fMRI. > What we can conclude is that random noise in the EPI timeseries may yield spurious results if multiple testing is not controlled for. In a functional image volume of 60,000-130,000 voxels the probability of a false discovery is almost certain. [0] silly as in "there's no way this fMRI will show the frozen salmon as alive, right?"
    - jaggederest 2y ago
      I think we run into the definition of satire and parody, here. Satire is "the truth, in the most extreme way", so I think it definitely qualifies to very, very seriously examine a dead salmon with an fMRI to see if it has brain activity. It's not a parody - they actually did the study, and the results were as described, not an imitation journal article ala The Onion.

DiggyJohnson 2y ago

Worth the read. I am so worried that we as a society have lost the ability to write well, and risk losing the ability to recognize and appreciate good writing. Rote professional written communication skills are changing and diminishing. The written word is generally seen to be a burden. Anyways, bittersweet thoughts from a really funny article.

MrMcCall 2y ago
This place really is good practice for all sorts of skills: expressive, physical, mental, emotional, and even spiritual. And beyond learning about various zones of my beloved nerdtech, there are very subtle levels of sociology, anthropology, and psychology on display here, too. But yeah, the decline is real, my friend. I declined to use IRC for all these years, and I'm afraid its descendant, texting, has not improved our society's level of anything beyond the most mundane trivial pursuits.
bongodongobob 2y ago
I think this is a poor example of "society writing well". It reads like a medical journal. I personally hate it and couldn't get through it.
nuz 2y ago
Well this is from the 80s when writing was still quite respected and practiced
blt 2y ago
Thanks to LLMs, the death of stylish writing in non-literary fields is assured. I agree, many people seem to view writing as a burden. I have only met a handful of people that can lay out a complex argument from scratch in speech alone. For most of us, writing is thinking. If you avoid writing, your ideas will remain murky forever.
codexb 2y ago
Up until recently, there always seemed to be a marked difference between the way people spoke vs how they conveyed thoughts in writing. These days, it often feels like most writing is just conversational and stream of consciousness and differs little from how many people speak. It always makes me curious how we generally view the people of antiquity as speaking very eloquently and properly, but that's probably because we only have writings from their time, not recordings of how they actually spoke.

Mistletoe 2y ago

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-our-team-overturned-the-90-year-old-metaphor-of-a-little-man-in-the-brain-who-controls-movement1/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-our-team-over... It’s really important, ok?

rob74 2y ago

All those cartoons had it right all along: four fingers per hand is more than enough!

tomcam 2y ago
You try to find the matching kid gloves, pal
- mst 2y ago
  I have no trivial solution to this, but "make friends with somebody who likes knitting things" will probably work well. (I wear a wrist brace on my left arm a lot of the time so I need significantly lopsided gloves and that's the only solution I've found to *that* problem)
humanfromearth9 2y ago
Yeah, but maybe this should be a bit more specific and state that one should always be the thumb. And then, why have we evolved with 5 of 4 is enough? Is it for redundancy, in case one fails? If yes, why is there no second thumb?
- jessekv 2y ago
  Chameleons agree with you. https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/z7700105/800wm/Z7700105-Foot_of_a_chameleon.jpg https://media.sciencephoto.com/image/z7700105/800wm/Z7700105...
layer8 2y ago
GenAI models disagree. ;)

iwontberude 2y ago

Whoever wrote this was creating satire and I don’t even know if they realize it.

consumer451 2y ago
People still surprise me, but given this part, it's hard for me to imagine that the author was not being satirical on purpose: > Obviously, I do not like arrogant disabled index digits and believe they should be removed if they cannot be restored to a functional status. There is no in-between with index fingers. > To me, index fingers portray a hideous personality reflecting conceit and pantywaist attitudes. In essence, they are smart-ass digits we can often do without. If I had to lose a finger and had my choice, I would choose first my nondominant hand index ray and next the other index. I find index digits easy to hate and sometimes hard to love. Although, maybe the author's point was serious?
- idlewords 2y ago
  If you read through carefully, the author is making a serious point: that in many cases of injury to the index finger, it is better functionally and cosmetically to remove it. He cites examples of patients with chronic pain or burning in the stump, and patients who have the remaining portion of the finger permanently extended, facilitating re-injury. I'm no fingerologist but I do appreciate anyone who can make serious points in such a funny way.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    I definitely noticed that, but if the goal was to convey a serious point, then would that be best served by humorous delivery? That's the confusion I was trying to express by saying: "Although, maybe the author's point was serious?"
    - dnsco 2y ago
      The point the author is making seems to be against the consensus of other hand specialists (this is at least my perception, as someone who has an index finger issue and has asked specialists "can't I just cut it off?"). The author is basically (and provocatively) saying "Are you kidding me? You really think it's useful for people to continue to be burdened with non-functional appendages?" to his colleagues, and I think the humor is likely to get them to engage with his thesis rather than dismiss it off hand. I have sent this to several doctor friends, and the writing style prompted them to send it to several more, so, I think it's quite likely that tone served the author's point.

dnsco 2y ago

I partially amputated (at the joint closest to the nail) my index finger a decade ago, and it’s been a huge impediment. This has motivated me to seek out some other opinions. Sent it to some doctor friends and they are floored by the writing style as well.

sph 2y ago
It's hard for me to rationalise that a few cms off the index could be a huge impediment, so can you please share where you find yourself impaired the most? I imagine gripping things, like a glass, should be more or less unaffected.
- dnsco 2y ago
  TL;DR nerves are really weird. It tingles all the time. There's a ton of "referred pain". It frequently feels like there is a dental drill going of in my face, when it's not painful, it's a a persistent nagging tickle, on my cheek/temple/around my eye. It gets reynauds phenomena, my house is 68F 20C right now, but my finger is freezing/painful because of how cold it is, this happens pretty much any time I wash my hand, so even in the summer when there's a slight breeze I'm hiding my hand in my pocket for warmth. When I bang it on things it really hurts, and like this paper says it's extended basically all the time when I'm trying to use my hand for other things. When I use it to grab things, it feels really weird, so I've kind of trained myself to keep it out of the way. This paper says cut it off, which the few other orthopedists I've talked to have not advised, but at this point, it's been a decade, and seeing a doctor be like "dude, the thing that's only there to make your hand more precise, is actually making your hand way less precise and detracting from your quality of life, cut it off", is a perspective I'm happy to hear. I manage mostly alright, but it's been a decade of major annoyance at best.
  - Zancarius 2y ago
    This is really fascinating to me, because it explains some things. I have a friend who crushed the tip of one of her fingers, but it wasn't amputated. She's described sensations very similar to yours, presumably from nerve damage. I never asked a bunch of questions about it, and now I wish I had after reading this post. If it ever comes up in conversation again, may I share a link to your comment with her?

ninalanyon 2y ago

"When you make the patient your enthusiastic ally in reconstructive surgery, you can get him to fly with six or eight small feathers." That is just brilliant. The article was an object lesson in clarity and humanity.

navigate8310 2y ago

Quite a jarring and informative article. I had no clue how finicky muscles are and bad amputation may result net negative results to the patient.

leoc 2y ago

Probably most experienced drumkit players don't generally use their index fingers either (except when playing the ride cymbal).

BriggyDwiggs42 2y ago
It’s useful for fast finger strokes

fellowniusmonk 2y ago

I mean if the middle finger is that versatile and important it's great that we have less important fingers providing a buffer on both sides of it. Ablative fingering, what an innovation.

JohnMakin 2y ago

As an older competitive gamer, I liked the part of this that describes how on injury or amputation the middle finger will quickly take over the index duties - I’ve noticed over the years that when my “trigger” finger on a controller is experiencing tendonitis and I have to rest it, that my middle finger performs just as adequately and I barely notice. This has always surprised me.

greenmartian 2y ago
I've got the inverse problem. Middle is my trigger finger. And when it's tired, I fall back to using the index finger. With games that are sensitive to analog trigger levels (e.g. car throttle), it's extremely noticeable how much my precision degrades when using the index. Always chalked it up to not enough practice. After reading this paper, I feel somewhat vindicated. It's not my fault, it's the finger's.

onelesd 2y ago

This article is giving Kurt Vonnegut and I love it.

flint 2y ago

I play string bass. Many suggest you focus your attention through the thumb of your left hand as you practice.

picometer 2y ago

I’m a violinist (amateur but play regularly). When I have an important note, which is held for a while and needs vibrato, I frequently decide to shift my left hand position so that my middle finger is responsible, rather than the index finger. It feels stronger, easier to nail the intonation (pitch) with precision, and freer to perform the desired type of vibrato. (String players do vibrato by wiggling the left hand finger, which affects the pitch and overtones / oscillation modes of the string.) In fact, I tend to avoid using the index finger on notes that require vibrato. That preference might be explained here, by the precision/strength combination. I tried holding a hammer as described in the author’s hammer exercise, and there’s similarity, though it requires much more weight-holding. The left hand doesn’t hold the weight of the violin (consider a cello or a guitar with shoulder strap), but a little grip strength is required to securely hold down the string, especially with vibrato. Overall, fascinating article. I feel quite motivated to read more on hand anatomy and biomechanics.

MrMcCall 2y ago
Sounds like the precise opposite of B.B. King doing his famed vibrato, by 'twilling' (?) around his index finger.
litenboll 2y ago
Similar on guitar with bends I think. I feel like using the index finger is very awkward, I use the middle finger or ring finger (when what I'm playing allows it) rather than the index finger. Typically with the next finger behind to guide and provide stability/strength.
- omershapira 2y ago
  The proprioception on the index finger while bending on guitar is worse for me than locking the ring finger and using the wrist to control the magnitude of the bend. Useless backfill-ass finger.

throw4847285 2y ago

Well it worked for Roland Deschain...

excalibur 2y ago
IIRC Roland lost his middle finger as well and had to pull the trigger with his ring finger.
- psunavy03 2y ago
  "I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind."
  - throw4847285 2y ago
    Nobody does it like King. Despite not being considered in the canon of literary fiction, I feel like he's going to endure as one of the most imaginative, thrilling, and flat out brilliant writers of genre fiction, alongside Christie, Tolkien, and Philip K Dick.

Ancalagon 2y ago

Hilariously, I anecdotally also can relate to this. I'm a competitive powerlifter and the calluses on my hands and fingers are most pronounced on the middle, ring, and pinky - with very little on the index.

blharr 2y ago
Huh, now that you mention it, after rock climbing, I similarly got the least callused on my index finger. Even the base of my index near the palm is much less worn than the rest of the non-thumb fingers
hawski 2y ago
I do pullups sometimes and I also observed this. I wonder if it is related to how index finger is not really in-line with the arm. When I look at my hand I can see that if U would draw extension lines from edges of my forearm they would contain middle, ring and pinky fingers, but not really the index finger.

ossopite 2y ago

I could relate to the claims in the article: for the last 6 months I've had soreness and pain in my left index fingertip that has confounded the doctors I've seen about it, and all that's helped is to avoid using it. Perhaps someone here has experienced something similar? When typing I feel pain initially at the fingertip where nail meets skin, which worsens and radiates around to the middle finger side of the fingernail after more use. Even when typing without using the index finger, stretching the finger to keep it away from the keyboard induces some pain after a while. If I cut the nail very short, I think I notice some tenderness and loss of sensation in a spot near the middle of the skin just under the nail edge. I think the pain developed over time while heavily using a split mechanical keyboard (kinesis freestyle edge) with poor typing technique and putting repeated pressure on the tip and side of the finger, but it has not gone away after switching to something more comfortable (kinesis 360). I don't remember any significant injury happening. The only visual sign is that the skin seems strongly attached to the nail near its edge, there is minimal free edge compared to what my other fingernails (which are all short) have. Actually that is somewhat true of the other index finger, but to a much lesser extent. There is nothing apparently abnormal about the skin under the nail but perhaps any issue isn't visible. Interestingly, the pain seems worse when my hands are warmer. X-rays/MRI/ultrasound scans showed nothing abnormal apparently. All my internet searching for an explanation has yielded nothing, hence writing this comment to see if anyone can help.

akdor1154 2y ago
Unsure about the new one, but on a mechanical keyboard, stick rubber o-rings under all the keycaps to make impacts much softer.
- ossopite 2y ago
  I did actually try that, and it felt like it helped for a brief while, but not for long
Superfud 2y ago
This is probably the very first thing you tried, but maybe don't cut the nail quite so short? Recommend upgrading to sharp and precise nail cutters as they make it easier to control exact nail length.

tomcam 2y ago

Someday my arthritis will get me beaten to a pulp by a gang member or, more likely, a cop. I seem to get itches on my face a lot and scratching with my index finger hurts too much. I use my middle finger instead. I try to be situationally aware but it’s only going to take one lapse…

nurbl 2y ago

The hammer example made me remember something. I did some Aikido long ago, and the instructor spent quite a lot of time showing us how to grip things like sticks. As I remember it, instead of the instinctive way of just forming a fist around it, we should instead start from the little finger, wrapping the fingers one by one, but letting the index finger actually rest more along the handle than wrapping it. That way, supposedly, the grip is just as good, but more flexible and the index finger can help with control.

robaato 2y ago
This is a classic way to teach use of a sword. It's also easy to feel what happens. Compare the feeling when gripping with first two fingers vs 3rd and 4th. With first 2, you will feel tension along top of forearm, whereas with the other 2 it is the underneath of forearm. This affects flexibility, softness, and thus ability to manipulate the sword.
- williamscales 2y ago
  This tracks with my experience fencing using a pistol grip. The index finger mostly gets in the way and I even injured mine using it too much. The middle finger is the main driver of grip and control.
- js2 2y ago
  Similarly, holding a chef's knife you wrap your thumb and index around the blade, with the remaining three fingers around the handle: https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/how-to-hold-a-knife-the-right-way-and-become-a-better-cook-because-of-it-article https://www.epicurious.com/expert-advice/how-to-hold-a-knife...
hinkley 2y ago
Most martial arts teach something like this. Typical civilian relies too heavily on the index finger when grabbing for instance your arm, and that makes it easier to twist out of the grapple, by using the shoulder and the bicep to lever out along the line halfway between the thumb and the index finger. Usually these are stronger muscles than the forearm, possible exception of rock climbers.

stevage 2y ago

Makes me think of Tommy Caldwell, top-tier rock climber who created so many of the iconic routes in Yosemite Valley. Despite losing an index finger in his 20s.

dumbfounder 2y ago

"In spite of its singular ability of precision, it is not difficult to feel ashamed of the index finger." "To me, index fingers portray a hideous personality reflecting conceit and pantywaist attitudes. In essence, they are smart-ass digits we can often do without. If I had to lose a finger and had my choice, I would choose first my nondominant hand index ray and next the other index. I find index digits easy to hate and sometimes hard to love." LOL

grahamj 2y ago
yeah TIL pantywaist is a word

grahamj 2y ago

Great article. Unfortunately the author overlooked a critical use case for the index finger: the Vulcan salute.

theultdev 2y ago

When I was teaching my wife how to play shooters I had to study how I was using my left hand on the keyboard. I noticed that the WASD placement excluded the middle finger. Once you lift it up and keep it hovering, the pinky hitting A, the ring hitting W and S and the index hitting D, it's very easy to dance them. I find the middle finger much less responsive than other fingers due to tendon connections (it is much stronger though as another user noted for bowling) I am left handed but I do use the PC like a "normal" person. She is right handed and she played noticeably better once doing this. The other major thing was to avoid cross talk between hands. Full aiming related things on the right, full movement related things on the left. (grenades, aimed abilities, etc. on mouse keys) Related note: in paintball, you feather the trigger with the index and middle finger as they are the fastest. The pinky is also fast but the ring is so slow that doesn't work. Middle and ring is slow for the same reason. TLDR: ring is your muscle finger, other fingers are more agile.

duderific 2y ago

As a competitive bowler, the index finger is not used at all. The middle and ring fingers are inserted into the finger holes. I think it has to do with the connection to forearm muscles as described in the paper - the middle and ring fingers provide the most grip strength which is required to provide torque to the ball.

nhlx2 2y ago

I’ve always preferred holding a guitar plectrum with my middle finger and thumb instead of the usual index and thumb. I always felt guilty about it since I’ve noticed professionals seem to always use the index finger.

michaelhoney 2y ago

I use my middle fingers for braking my mountain bike: my index fingers don’t feel up to the task.