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Tesla's top battery supplier says Elon doesn't know how to make battery cells

14 points by peutetre 2y ago

kazinator 2y ago
That's myopically complacent; 20 years ago some car makers probably said the same thing: bah, Musk doesn't know how to make cars. Now something like every other new car on North American roads is a Tesla. That battery marker is probably toast.
- Glant 2y ago
  > Now something like every other new car on North American roads is a Tesla. Source? I could see that being true for EVs, but I can't see it being true for all cars in general.
  - snypher 2y ago
    Ford sold almost as many trucks as Tesla did units total for 2023, so there's no source, unless things changed very recently.
- LeafItAlone 2y ago
  >Now something like every other new car on North American roads is a Tesla. That’s not even close to being true. Toyota, alone, sold more vehicles in the US than Tesla did globally. https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-vehicle-production-deliveries-and-date-financial-results-webcast-fourth-quarter-2023 https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-vehicle-production-... https://pressroom.toyota.com/?generate_pdf=91364 https://pressroom.toyota.com/?generate_pdf=91364 Perhaps you meant electric vehicles? Which your statement about count sold more accurate, but overall sentiment, still off.
  - m463 2y ago
    california sales are pretty high: https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/one-out-of-every-8-cars-sold-in-california-in-2023-was-a-tesla-21-4-ev-share/ https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/one-out-of-every-8-cars-sold-... (toyota 15% tesla 13%) But toyotas numbers transfer to rest of the US. I think what people read is that model 3 and model y are the best selling cars in california: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/01/Screenshot-2024-01-30-at-12.39.18AM.jpg https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/01/Scree... but if you look closer tesla only sells one car in the segment, while toyota "competes with itself" with camry+corolla > model 3, and same with honda's accord+civic > model 3
    - LeafItAlone 2y ago
      Sure, they sell well, but those stats are still a far cry from parent’s assertion.
- cyanydeez 2y ago
  [flagged]
- brokenmachine 2y ago
  Cybertruck. That is all.
bob_theslob646 2y ago
>Zeng said he had told Musk directly that his bet on a cylindrical battery, known as the 4680, “is going to fail and never be successful.” The CATL founder, who has a PhD in physics, was also unimpressed with Musk’s electrochemistry knowledge when debating Tesla’s 4680 batteyr cell effort: “We had a very big debate, and I showed him,” Zeng said. “He was silent. He doesn’t know how to make a battery. It’s about electrochemistry. He’s good for the chips, the software, the hardware, the mechanical things.” I wish the headlines would not be so literal because he praised Elon on other things.
- enslavedrobot 2y ago
  Actual materials chemist here. A PhD in physics is not that relevant to understanding the real electrochemical nuts and bolts if a battery. Just look up what a solid electrolyte interface (SEI) layer is to see how bush league current battery technology is. Compared to CMOS tech, which has benefited from trillions of dollars of R&D, batteries are in the stone age.

14 points by peutetre 2y ago

That's myopically complacent; 20 years ago some car makers probably said the same thing: bah, Musk doesn't know how to make cars. Now something like every other new car on North American roads is a Tesla. That battery marker is probably toast.

Glant 2y ago
> Now something like every other new car on North American roads is a Tesla. Source? I could see that being true for EVs, but I can't see it being true for all cars in general.
- snypher 2y ago
  Ford sold almost as many trucks as Tesla did units total for 2023, so there's no source, unless things changed very recently.
LeafItAlone 2y ago
>Now something like every other new car on North American roads is a Tesla. That’s not even close to being true. Toyota, alone, sold more vehicles in the US than Tesla did globally. https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-vehicle-production-deliveries-and-date-financial-results-webcast-fourth-quarter-2023 https://ir.tesla.com/press-release/tesla-vehicle-production-... https://pressroom.toyota.com/?generate_pdf=91364 https://pressroom.toyota.com/?generate_pdf=91364 Perhaps you meant electric vehicles? Which your statement about count sold more accurate, but overall sentiment, still off.
- m463 2y ago
  california sales are pretty high: https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/one-out-of-every-8-cars-sold-in-california-in-2023-was-a-tesla-21-4-ev-share/ https://electrek.co/2024/01/30/one-out-of-every-8-cars-sold-... (toyota 15% tesla 13%) But toyotas numbers transfer to rest of the US. I think what people read is that model 3 and model y are the best selling cars in california: https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/01/Screenshot-2024-01-30-at-12.39.18AM.jpg https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2024/01/Scree... but if you look closer tesla only sells one car in the segment, while toyota "competes with itself" with camry+corolla > model 3, and same with honda's accord+civic > model 3
  - LeafItAlone 2y ago
    Sure, they sell well, but those stats are still a far cry from parent’s assertion.
cyanydeez 2y ago
[flagged]
brokenmachine 2y ago
Cybertruck. That is all.

bob_theslob646 2y ago

>Zeng said he had told Musk directly that his bet on a cylindrical battery, known as the 4680, “is going to fail and never be successful.” The CATL founder, who has a PhD in physics, was also unimpressed with Musk’s electrochemistry knowledge when debating Tesla’s 4680 batteyr cell effort: “We had a very big debate, and I showed him,” Zeng said. “He was silent. He doesn’t know how to make a battery. It’s about electrochemistry. He’s good for the chips, the software, the hardware, the mechanical things.” I wish the headlines would not be so literal because he praised Elon on other things.

enslavedrobot 2y ago
Actual materials chemist here. A PhD in physics is not that relevant to understanding the real electrochemical nuts and bolts if a battery. Just look up what a solid electrolyte interface (SEI) layer is to see how bush league current battery technology is. Compared to CMOS tech, which has benefited from trillions of dollars of R&D, batteries are in the stone age.