5 ms·

So they had no idea where to go next and were tired. That's reasonable. Seems to be what happens to most long running pop culture entertainment products, but

So they had no idea where to go next and were tired. That's reasonable. Seems to be what happens to most long running pop culture entertainment products, but creators usually have mortgages to pay and can't alternatively devote their energies to building out something more lucrative like Steam.

rightbyte 2y ago
L4D was a real hit though. I don't think they let anyone or them self (the artistic spirit, not Valve) down.
- the_af 2y ago
  L4D was a genuinely good, groundbreaking game for its time. I didn't think it was possible to have so much fun with a multi-player FPS (CounterStrike and its ilk did nothing for me). I'm sure there are more impressive MP games nowadays, but back then it felt revolutionary.
  - rightbyte 2y ago
    Ye it was revolutionary. Both as multiplayer coop and as a zombie game.
davidczech 2y ago
I think Half Life: Alyx really is their "Half Life 3" - there's no game I've played that comes close to anything like it. It's fairly clear in hindsight they opted for a prequel to disassociate with the baggage HL3 carries, in all aspects.
Wowfunhappy 2y ago
I don't think it's reasonable. When you release part of an episodic story, you are making an implicit promise to your audience that you will finish the story! Even more so if you end on a cliffhanger. This applies just as much to George R. R. Martin, btw.
- Mistletoe 2y ago
  I think a lot of video game companies get into this trap. I can't speak for others but for me, I don’t care about technical innovation, just give me more Skyrim, Witcher, Fallout, Half Life, Baldur’s Gate, Elden Ring story. It’s not rocket science. Put all the money you wanted to give to tech guys that want to revamp the engine every year into hiring amazing writers and art direction people.
  - bartread 2y ago
    I don't know: then you just end up with the videogame equivalent of the MCU which, at my most charitable, I would describe as uneven reaching mid at best. However, if we look at the median of how I feel about MCU, I'm just bored to tears with it. It's utter bilge. You just end up with this meaningless churning out of endless content for content's sake that goes nowhere and signifies nothing. Destiny 2 is actually a great example of this in the world of videogames.
    - DrillShopper 2y ago
      > then you just end up with the videogame equivalent of the MCU We've been there for a long time - just off the top of my head: Call of Duty, Halo, Assassin's Creed, World of Warcraft (doubly so now with Classic), Fortnite Some people really just want to go back to the old and comfortable.
      - usrusr 2y ago
        True. But is that market really that big? Once you've fallen behind a few releases you just don't care for the latest, and the not-latest lack any of that novelty appeal that video games tend to rely on quite a bit.
  - fidgetPing 2y ago
    Video-games fundamentally don't work like that. Stories are told through gameplay, which is an interactive medium expressed through engine, assets and direction. The best video-game storytellers are the tech guys. Most of the franchises you've listed have fairly rudimentary writing by the standards of any other medium, but it's elevated because it is so fun to play. Even something as story-centric as Baldur's Gate, Disco Elysium or Pathologic rests on a ton of technical innovation.
righthand 2y ago
They also built up the myth both internally and externally that nothing they developed for the game was good enough, when people were already satisfied with the current mechanics. They wore themselves out saying it could be anything and accepting nothing. A monster of their own creation that is easily killed with a little humility. It is their desire to be unreasonable that led them there. Not reasonable at all IMO.
- schmidtleonard 2y ago
  Yeah, the ice gun and blob baddie would have blown my mind even if they were 5 years late or whatever. I'd still love to play with them.
- aithrowawaycomm 2y ago
  It seems like the real problem was burnout among the rank-and-file, not Gabe Newell's perfectionism. The staff seems to have had more fun with a goofy new IP like Left 4 Dead, versus a serious plot like HL2 where any perceived narrative misstep would be severely criticized. If they shoved the episode through and lost a lot of staff, then that would be a Phyrric victory. Contrary to some opinions here, Valve did not owe a single thing to HL fans, and they had no obligation to finish the story.
  - righthand 2y ago
    They don’t have that obligation to finish the story, but Half-Life 2 Episode 2 immediately retcons the ending of Half-Life 2 to give you more play in the world. Half-Life: Alyx, the entire game is a retcon of the ending of Episode 2. So to sit and claim there was nothing narratively interesting to work with and not a good direction to go in, is ridiculous because they always had a an escape hatch with the retcon. A company that has failed with sales of Portal 2 but has plenty of operating capital to continue on, Half-Life 2 Episode 3/Half-Life 3 at the very least was a promise they made and walked back. Yes they did owe something to the fans over the last 20 years. They were the ones who set out to outdo the previous episode and let the idea blossom into never good enough, not the fans.
- xk_id 2y ago
mrandish 2y ago
> So they had no idea where to go next and were tired. In my experience, a creative team realizing this and choosing to move on is both important and all-too rare. The only alternative I've seen is to find new project leadership who gets what made the original work, has a vision for extending it in new directions and the energy+talent to execute it. Obviously, finding that with high confidence is hard to do.

rightbyte 2y ago

L4D was a real hit though. I don't think they let anyone or them self (the artistic spirit, not Valve) down.

the_af 2y ago
L4D was a genuinely good, groundbreaking game for its time. I didn't think it was possible to have so much fun with a multi-player FPS (CounterStrike and its ilk did nothing for me). I'm sure there are more impressive MP games nowadays, but back then it felt revolutionary.
- rightbyte 2y ago
  Ye it was revolutionary. Both as multiplayer coop and as a zombie game.

davidczech 2y ago

I think Half Life: Alyx really is their "Half Life 3" - there's no game I've played that comes close to anything like it. It's fairly clear in hindsight they opted for a prequel to disassociate with the baggage HL3 carries, in all aspects.

Wowfunhappy 2y ago

I don't think it's reasonable. When you release part of an episodic story, you are making an implicit promise to your audience that you will finish the story! Even more so if you end on a cliffhanger. This applies just as much to George R. R. Martin, btw.

Mistletoe 2y ago
I think a lot of video game companies get into this trap. I can't speak for others but for me, I don’t care about technical innovation, just give me more Skyrim, Witcher, Fallout, Half Life, Baldur’s Gate, Elden Ring story. It’s not rocket science. Put all the money you wanted to give to tech guys that want to revamp the engine every year into hiring amazing writers and art direction people.
- bartread 2y ago
  I don't know: then you just end up with the videogame equivalent of the MCU which, at my most charitable, I would describe as uneven reaching mid at best. However, if we look at the median of how I feel about MCU, I'm just bored to tears with it. It's utter bilge. You just end up with this meaningless churning out of endless content for content's sake that goes nowhere and signifies nothing. Destiny 2 is actually a great example of this in the world of videogames.
  - DrillShopper 2y ago
    > then you just end up with the videogame equivalent of the MCU We've been there for a long time - just off the top of my head: Call of Duty, Halo, Assassin's Creed, World of Warcraft (doubly so now with Classic), Fortnite Some people really just want to go back to the old and comfortable.
    - usrusr 2y ago
      True. But is that market really that big? Once you've fallen behind a few releases you just don't care for the latest, and the not-latest lack any of that novelty appeal that video games tend to rely on quite a bit.
- fidgetPing 2y ago
  Video-games fundamentally don't work like that. Stories are told through gameplay, which is an interactive medium expressed through engine, assets and direction. The best video-game storytellers are the tech guys. Most of the franchises you've listed have fairly rudimentary writing by the standards of any other medium, but it's elevated because it is so fun to play. Even something as story-centric as Baldur's Gate, Disco Elysium or Pathologic rests on a ton of technical innovation.

righthand 2y ago

They also built up the myth both internally and externally that nothing they developed for the game was good enough, when people were already satisfied with the current mechanics. They wore themselves out saying it could be anything and accepting nothing. A monster of their own creation that is easily killed with a little humility. It is their desire to be unreasonable that led them there. Not reasonable at all IMO.

schmidtleonard 2y ago
Yeah, the ice gun and blob baddie would have blown my mind even if they were 5 years late or whatever. I'd still love to play with them.
aithrowawaycomm 2y ago
It seems like the real problem was burnout among the rank-and-file, not Gabe Newell's perfectionism. The staff seems to have had more fun with a goofy new IP like Left 4 Dead, versus a serious plot like HL2 where any perceived narrative misstep would be severely criticized. If they shoved the episode through and lost a lot of staff, then that would be a Phyrric victory. Contrary to some opinions here, Valve did not owe a single thing to HL fans, and they had no obligation to finish the story.
- righthand 2y ago
  They don’t have that obligation to finish the story, but Half-Life 2 Episode 2 immediately retcons the ending of Half-Life 2 to give you more play in the world. Half-Life: Alyx, the entire game is a retcon of the ending of Episode 2. So to sit and claim there was nothing narratively interesting to work with and not a good direction to go in, is ridiculous because they always had a an escape hatch with the retcon. A company that has failed with sales of Portal 2 but has plenty of operating capital to continue on, Half-Life 2 Episode 3/Half-Life 3 at the very least was a promise they made and walked back. Yes they did owe something to the fans over the last 20 years. They were the ones who set out to outdo the previous episode and let the idea blossom into never good enough, not the fans.
xk_id 2y ago

mrandish 2y ago

> So they had no idea where to go next and were tired. In my experience, a creative team realizing this and choosing to move on is both important and all-too rare. The only alternative I've seen is to find new project leadership who gets what made the original work, has a vision for extending it in new directions and the energy+talent to execute it. Obviously, finding that with high confidence is hard to do.