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Title has a misleading domain name (gwern.net). Link is to a PhD thesis titled "Scaling Laws for Deep Learning" by Jonathan Rosenfeld. Not sure why wasn't linke

by ks2048 2y ago

Title has a misleading domain name (gwern.net). Link is to a PhD thesis titled "Scaling Laws for Deep Learning" by Jonathan Rosenfeld. Not sure why wasn't linked more directly, https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.07686 https://arxiv.org/abs/2108.07686 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07686#page=85 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07686#page=85

jll29 2y ago
Generally, if you google a person's name as follows: "Jonathan S. Rosenfeld" +DBLP you will get their computer science publication list. From that, you can gather that the two main papers that form the core of Rosenfeld's thesis are these: https://openreview.net/pdf?id=ryenvpEKDr https://openreview.net/pdf?id=ryenvpEKDr https://proceedings.mlr.press/v139/rosenfeld21a.html https://proceedings.mlr.press/v139/rosenfeld21a.html (if you prefer to read the gist in fewer pages.)
telotortium 2y ago
Gwern, have you considered hosting your archived docs on a different subdomain (e.g., doc.gwern.net) to make it clearer that they are not something you have authored yourself? Not sure what the best subdomain would be though.
- gwern 2y ago
  I don't think that would make it any clearer. Why would 'doc.gwern.net' be more obviously just a random document than 'gwern.net/doc/www/'? Regardless, I am puzzled how OP got this URL in the first place. He wasn't supposed to, he was supposed to get the canonical Arxiv PDF link. Because this is one of the cache mirrors/local archives†, rather than a regular hosted document. We block everything in /doc/www/ in robots.txt & HTTP no-archive/crawl/mirror/etc headers, and we use JS to swap out the local URL for the original URL whenever the reader clicks or mouse-overs or interacts with a link to the URL in a web page (and that is the only place they should be publicly listed or accessible). If OP read it on gwern.net by seeing a link to it, and he wanted to copy the URL elsewhere, he should have just gotten the canonical "https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07686#page=85 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07686#page=85"... But somehow he didn't. OP, do you remember how exactly you grabbed this URL? Is this an old link from before our URL swapping was implemented, or did you deliberately work around it, or did you find some place we forgot to swap, or what? (If anyone is wondering why I mirror Arxiv PDFs like this in the first place: it's for the PDF preview feature in the popups. Because Arxiv blocks itself from being loaded in iframes we need local mirrors for PDF preview to work at all; local mirrors save a new domain lookup and speeds up the PDF preview a lot because we compress the PDF more thoroughly and Arxiv servers are always overloaded; and because readers can potentially pop up many Arxiv PDFs easily, it saves Arxiv a lot of bandwidth and avoid burdening their servers further, so it's just the responsible thing to do.) † https://gwern.net/archiving#preemptive-local-archiving https://gwern.net/archiving#preemptive-local-archiving
  - xelxebar 2y ago
    Not OP, but the HN crowd here often browses without JS. Quickly testing a no-JS session, I do see your archive URLs instead of arxiv ones.
    - gwern 2y ago
      Yes, without the swapping JS, you wouldn't get the canonical URL. But browsing Gwern.net these days without JS is pretty painful. And in this particular case, there is only one place on Gwern.net that the link exists where you could see it without JS; in the other 5 or 6 links, you could only get there via JS and thus the swapping should've happened. So it is not a safe assumption that OP simply browsed with NoScript.
      - sleepingreset 2y ago
        Hi Gwern, I'm honestly not sure. I have some firefox extension that skips trackers and other redirects. I have like 100 firefox extensions, actually. I'm not sure how most of them work nor what they do exactly, I just trust that they make my browser more "secure" and I tend to download things at random -- especially if I see ads or want certain features in my client (i.e. a browser that auto-rejects cookies). Happy to try and help you figure this out but when I revisit this specific hyperlink I'm still getting the gwern url & not arxiv
        gwern 2y ago
        Hm. So you're getting the raw URL but you don't have NoScript / block JS specifically? Can you check in an incognito window and if it still happens, ablate all your extensions in a fresh profile (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-remove-switch-firefox-profiles https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-...), which is something you might want to keep handy if you really have 100 extensions running and no idea what they all do...
  - littlestymaar 2y ago
    > Why would 'doc.gwern.net' be more obviously just a random document than 'gwern.net/doc/www/'? HN only shows the domain next to the title. So now when browsing the front page we only see gwern.net as the source of the doc and initially assume it's some work from you.

by ks2048 2y ago

jll29 2y ago

Generally, if you google a person's name as follows: "Jonathan S. Rosenfeld" +DBLP you will get their computer science publication list. From that, you can gather that the two main papers that form the core of Rosenfeld's thesis are these: https://openreview.net/pdf?id=ryenvpEKDr https://openreview.net/pdf?id=ryenvpEKDr https://proceedings.mlr.press/v139/rosenfeld21a.html https://proceedings.mlr.press/v139/rosenfeld21a.html (if you prefer to read the gist in fewer pages.)

telotortium 2y ago

Gwern, have you considered hosting your archived docs on a different subdomain (e.g., doc.gwern.net) to make it clearer that they are not something you have authored yourself? Not sure what the best subdomain would be though.

gwern 2y ago
I don't think that would make it any clearer. Why would 'doc.gwern.net' be more obviously just a random document than 'gwern.net/doc/www/'? Regardless, I am puzzled how OP got this URL in the first place. He wasn't supposed to, he was supposed to get the canonical Arxiv PDF link. Because this is one of the cache mirrors/local archives†, rather than a regular hosted document. We block everything in /doc/www/ in robots.txt & HTTP no-archive/crawl/mirror/etc headers, and we use JS to swap out the local URL for the original URL whenever the reader clicks or mouse-overs or interacts with a link to the URL in a web page (and that is the only place they should be publicly listed or accessible). If OP read it on gwern.net by seeing a link to it, and he wanted to copy the URL elsewhere, he should have just gotten the canonical "https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07686#page=85 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2108.07686#page=85"... But somehow he didn't. OP, do you remember how exactly you grabbed this URL? Is this an old link from before our URL swapping was implemented, or did you deliberately work around it, or did you find some place we forgot to swap, or what? (If anyone is wondering why I mirror Arxiv PDFs like this in the first place: it's for the PDF preview feature in the popups. Because Arxiv blocks itself from being loaded in iframes we need local mirrors for PDF preview to work at all; local mirrors save a new domain lookup and speeds up the PDF preview a lot because we compress the PDF more thoroughly and Arxiv servers are always overloaded; and because readers can potentially pop up many Arxiv PDFs easily, it saves Arxiv a lot of bandwidth and avoid burdening their servers further, so it's just the responsible thing to do.) † https://gwern.net/archiving#preemptive-local-archiving https://gwern.net/archiving#preemptive-local-archiving
- xelxebar 2y ago
  Not OP, but the HN crowd here often browses without JS. Quickly testing a no-JS session, I do see your archive URLs instead of arxiv ones.
  - gwern 2y ago
    Yes, without the swapping JS, you wouldn't get the canonical URL. But browsing Gwern.net these days without JS is pretty painful. And in this particular case, there is only one place on Gwern.net that the link exists where you could see it without JS; in the other 5 or 6 links, you could only get there via JS and thus the swapping should've happened. So it is not a safe assumption that OP simply browsed with NoScript.
    - sleepingreset 2y ago
      Hi Gwern, I'm honestly not sure. I have some firefox extension that skips trackers and other redirects. I have like 100 firefox extensions, actually. I'm not sure how most of them work nor what they do exactly, I just trust that they make my browser more "secure" and I tend to download things at random -- especially if I see ads or want certain features in my client (i.e. a browser that auto-rejects cookies). Happy to try and help you figure this out but when I revisit this specific hyperlink I'm still getting the gwern url & not arxiv
      - gwern 2y ago
        Hm. So you're getting the raw URL but you don't have NoScript / block JS specifically? Can you check in an incognito window and if it still happens, ablate all your extensions in a fresh profile (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-remove-switch-firefox-profiles https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-...), which is something you might want to keep handy if you really have 100 extensions running and no idea what they all do...
- littlestymaar 2y ago
  > Why would 'doc.gwern.net' be more obviously just a random document than 'gwern.net/doc/www/'? HN only shows the domain next to the title. So now when browsing the front page we only see gwern.net as the source of the doc and initially assume it's some work from you.