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What exactly would "properly" arming Ukraine look like? The entire Western world doesn't produce enough Patriot missiles to meet Ukraine's air defense needs, ju

What exactly would "properly" arming Ukraine look like? The entire Western world doesn't produce enough Patriot missiles to meet Ukraine's air defense needs, just as one critical example. We are aiming for a global production target of 750 missiles/year ( https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15354795 https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/15354795 ).... Russia has fired about 6,000 missiles and large drones per year ( https://kyivindependent.com/defense-ministry-over-2-000-russian-missiles-downed-over-ukraine-since-start-of-all-out-war/ https://kyivindependent.com/defense-ministry-over-2-000-russ... ). You can send Ukraine all of the F-16s in the world, it won't matter if there aren't enough Ukrainian pilots with the linguistic skills to get them through the Western training pipelines. The reality is that the West can't make the math work at a level of commitment/investment that it is willing to accept. To say nothing of the steadily-worsening problem of "lack of living, breathing Ukrainian men willing to do the fighting in the first place"...

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> What exactly would "properly" arming Ukraine look like? More long-range offensive weapons and clearance to hit sites in Russia. Let Israel know that we wouldn't mind them taking out the Iranian drone factories supplying Russia.
- jonplackett 2y ago
  Even the pentagons own assessments say this won’t make much difference.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Even the pentagons own assessments say this won’t make much difference I mean yes, it’s also what the press secretary has been saying. They’ve been wrong at every step to date because Biden has been wrong about this.
  - fractallyte 2y ago
    The Pentagon made a number of flawed assessments, each one upended by Ukraine's determined actions. And let's use some Feynman-style common sense: taking out airfields, ammunition depots, and logistics WILL help Ukraine's defense immensely. I would go further and question which clowns are running the show in the Pentagon, but maybe I should keep my cool over that matter.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > would go further and question which clowns are running the show in the Pentagon, but maybe I should keep my cool over that matter They’re not incompetent. But they do serve at the pleasure of the President. That makes their public communications political.
- pretzel32 2y ago
  It must be nice starting yet another world conflict from the comfort of a leather chair, in a bank in New York... "Go on my little goyim, go spill your blood so we can invest in a free Ukraine!"
  - petre 2y ago
    I won't criticize the Pentagon. They're taking orders from higher up who's waiting for Russia to escalate in order to respond. The ballistic missile strike on Dnipro is a new devlopment: "This could have been a strategic nuclear strike, but it's a Russian PR statement instead". I wonder what South Korea is waiting for, Kim getting proper ICBM tech from Russia?
jonplackett 2y ago
Can’t believe I had to scroll so for the first comment based on reality and not wishful thinking.
throw2343223434 2y ago
[dead]
fldskfjdslkfj 2y ago
Take 100 NATO F-16 pilots and grant them Ukrainian citizenship.
- CapricornNoble 2y ago
  Who would want Ukrainian citizenship? Nobody. Certainly not experienced aviators who already hold more valuable/useful passports, and are probably on a career track that leads to them becoming airline pilots and making very nice salaries. Gonky and Mover, two veteran US fighter pilots on YT, had a video segment discussing foreign pilots flying for Ukraine....they both totally shit on the idea. The risks are too high and the potential compensation is too low. These guys have no desire to tangle with Su-35s and MiG-31s chucking R-37M missiles, likely from beyond the effective engagement range of the F-16 + AIM-120 combo. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/mig-31-and-vympel-r-37m-a-formidabl/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/mig-31-and-vympel-r-37m-a-form... https://warriormaven.com/russia-ukraine/upgraded-russian-mig-31-poses-new-threat-to-ukraine https://warriormaven.com/russia-ukraine/upgraded-russian-mig...
brohee 2y ago
The large drones (if you mean Shahed by that) absolutely don't need a Patriot response. More Gepards would help with those OTOH. The West could definitely manufacture enough counter to the ballistic missile menace.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> What exactly would "properly" arming Ukraine look like? More long-range offensive weapons and clearance to hit sites in Russia. Let Israel know that we wouldn't mind them taking out the Iranian drone factories supplying Russia.

jonplackett 2y ago
Even the pentagons own assessments say this won’t make much difference.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Even the pentagons own assessments say this won’t make much difference I mean yes, it’s also what the press secretary has been saying. They’ve been wrong at every step to date because Biden has been wrong about this.
- fractallyte 2y ago
  The Pentagon made a number of flawed assessments, each one upended by Ukraine's determined actions. And let's use some Feynman-style common sense: taking out airfields, ammunition depots, and logistics WILL help Ukraine's defense immensely. I would go further and question which clowns are running the show in the Pentagon, but maybe I should keep my cool over that matter.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > would go further and question which clowns are running the show in the Pentagon, but maybe I should keep my cool over that matter They’re not incompetent. But they do serve at the pleasure of the President. That makes their public communications political.
pretzel32 2y ago
It must be nice starting yet another world conflict from the comfort of a leather chair, in a bank in New York... "Go on my little goyim, go spill your blood so we can invest in a free Ukraine!"
- petre 2y ago
  I won't criticize the Pentagon. They're taking orders from higher up who's waiting for Russia to escalate in order to respond. The ballistic missile strike on Dnipro is a new devlopment: "This could have been a strategic nuclear strike, but it's a Russian PR statement instead". I wonder what South Korea is waiting for, Kim getting proper ICBM tech from Russia?

jonplackett 2y ago

Can’t believe I had to scroll so for the first comment based on reality and not wishful thinking.

throw2343223434 2y ago

[dead]

fldskfjdslkfj 2y ago

Take 100 NATO F-16 pilots and grant them Ukrainian citizenship.

CapricornNoble 2y ago
Who would want Ukrainian citizenship? Nobody. Certainly not experienced aviators who already hold more valuable/useful passports, and are probably on a career track that leads to them becoming airline pilots and making very nice salaries. Gonky and Mover, two veteran US fighter pilots on YT, had a video segment discussing foreign pilots flying for Ukraine....they both totally shit on the idea. The risks are too high and the potential compensation is too low. These guys have no desire to tangle with Su-35s and MiG-31s chucking R-37M missiles, likely from beyond the effective engagement range of the F-16 + AIM-120 combo. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/mig-31-and-vympel-r-37m-a-formidabl/ https://www.eurasiantimes.com/mig-31-and-vympel-r-37m-a-form... https://warriormaven.com/russia-ukraine/upgraded-russian-mig-31-poses-new-threat-to-ukraine https://warriormaven.com/russia-ukraine/upgraded-russian-mig...

brohee 2y ago

The large drones (if you mean Shahed by that) absolutely don't need a Patriot response. More Gepards would help with those OTOH. The West could definitely manufacture enough counter to the ballistic missile menace.