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> Really? That's exactly how the Russians perceive the EU. They are perceived as weak. There is no way they would have started the invasion if they were afraid

by rdtsc 2y ago

> Really? That's exactly how the Russians perceive the EU. They are perceived as weak. There is no way they would have started the invasion if they were afraid of them. They are engaging in asymmetrical warfare because they are convinced they can demonstrate that to the world as well "look what we are doing there and well we get is phone calls form Sholz" [1] > Scholz condemned the war of aggression against Ukraine > The German leader called on Putin to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine ... [1] https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-scholz-calls-putin-for-first-time-in-2-years/a-70796017 https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-scholz-calls-putin-for-first-... That might look like a "power move" by Germany but it looks absolutely weak in the eyes of Putin.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> That's exactly how the Russians perceive the EU. They are perceived as weak Europe has been weak. The difference is Russia is weak while trying its hardest. Europe is weak because it can't bother to try. > That might look like a "power move" by Germany but it looks absolutely weak in the eyes of Putin Nobody considers condemnations power moves. Also, Putin's track record in reading who's too weak to do what doesn't look too hot right now.
- rdtsc 2y ago
  > That might look like a "power move" by Germany but it looks absolutely weak in the eyes of Putin Calling and talking with Putin as acting as some kind of "power broker" or "decider" (Bush junior's classic). I think that's the context there. That's after years of hand wringing, should we help, or shouldn't help, maybe help, but not too much and so on. > Europe has been weak. The difference is Russia is weak while trying its hardest. Europe is weak because it can't bother to try I agree, and I don't know if now it finally woke up or it hasn't yet. It's not over till it's over, as they say.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    Poland at least seems awake. They are gobbling up Korean tanks and artillery. Poland has seen this story play out and they are tired of being the butt of the joke. If Europe won't protect Poland, Poland will defend itself.
- Demiurge 2y ago
  How is it trying its hardest when it hasn’t declared a full scale mobilization, hasn’t closed its borders, or switched to war time economy?
  - XorNot 2y ago
    Russia is absolutely in a full war time economy at the moment. There's nothing left to squeeze out of it and they're headed for a meltdown in 2025/2026.
    - lucianbr 2y ago
      > Russia is absolutely in a full war time economy at the moment. So it would seem. > There's nothing left to squeeze out of it and they're headed for a meltdown in 2025/2026. Promises, promises. By the time 2026 rolls around, nobody will remember this comment to tell you how wrong you were. I mean, you could be right. Who knows. The point is the future is uncertain, and using predictions as proof or arguments is stupid. Nobody knows what's going to happen 2 years out. Did you know ahead of time they would get NK soldiers, NK artillery ammo, Iranian drones? What if Putin finds some clever ways of compensating for the losses? He's actively trying to improve his situation, not just sitting on his ass watching, as these predictions imply.
      - XorNot 2y ago
        And what if an asteroid destroys all the Russian forces..then what? Current Russian interest rates are 21% on cash, 15% on 10 year bonds[1] and the government is increasing spending on the war.[2] The wheels aren't going to come off immediately, but they've been reaching the peak of their ability. Or to put it another way: you're not clever for going "nah uh" and there's no such thing as magic. For the next 3 years Russia's economy is being tossed at the war entirely, and every dollar which is is coming at the expense of everything else. And this is all based on the heavily massaged Kremlin figures: they're not easy to lie about, but they're certainly also only ever going to be reported to try and shape a message of the type you're now parroting: you can't win so don't even try, Kremlin-strong, authoritarianism is just plain tougher then you decadent westerners. [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-bond-yield https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-bond-yield [2] https://cepa.org/article/russia-budgets-for-its-forever-war/ https://cepa.org/article/russia-budgets-for-its-forever-war/
cmrdporcupine 2y ago
That Russian ideology is stuck in 19th century / WWI-era imperial mentality is their own problem. How they "perceive" Europe is their own concern. Europe mostly learned its lessons after WWII and is more interested in commerce and trade, not in battling over colonial possessions and ethnic partitioning. The games that the US (in Iraq, Syria etc.) and the Russians are playing have had nothing but negative effects on the world. US poked the hornets nest in Iraq/Syria and now Europe has had a refugee crisis for 10+ years. Russia butchering Ukraine the same.
coffeebeqn 2y ago
Scholz is a relic from a era that has ended. The new chancellor early next year will likely be much more anti-Russia. Another strategic win?

by rdtsc 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> That's exactly how the Russians perceive the EU. They are perceived as weak Europe has been weak. The difference is Russia is weak while trying its hardest. Europe is weak because it can't bother to try. > That might look like a "power move" by Germany but it looks absolutely weak in the eyes of Putin Nobody considers condemnations power moves. Also, Putin's track record in reading who's too weak to do what doesn't look too hot right now.

rdtsc 2y ago
> That might look like a "power move" by Germany but it looks absolutely weak in the eyes of Putin Calling and talking with Putin as acting as some kind of "power broker" or "decider" (Bush junior's classic). I think that's the context there. That's after years of hand wringing, should we help, or shouldn't help, maybe help, but not too much and so on. > Europe has been weak. The difference is Russia is weak while trying its hardest. Europe is weak because it can't bother to try I agree, and I don't know if now it finally woke up or it hasn't yet. It's not over till it's over, as they say.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  Poland at least seems awake. They are gobbling up Korean tanks and artillery. Poland has seen this story play out and they are tired of being the butt of the joke. If Europe won't protect Poland, Poland will defend itself.
Demiurge 2y ago
How is it trying its hardest when it hasn’t declared a full scale mobilization, hasn’t closed its borders, or switched to war time economy?
- XorNot 2y ago
  Russia is absolutely in a full war time economy at the moment. There's nothing left to squeeze out of it and they're headed for a meltdown in 2025/2026.
  - lucianbr 2y ago
    > Russia is absolutely in a full war time economy at the moment. So it would seem. > There's nothing left to squeeze out of it and they're headed for a meltdown in 2025/2026. Promises, promises. By the time 2026 rolls around, nobody will remember this comment to tell you how wrong you were. I mean, you could be right. Who knows. The point is the future is uncertain, and using predictions as proof or arguments is stupid. Nobody knows what's going to happen 2 years out. Did you know ahead of time they would get NK soldiers, NK artillery ammo, Iranian drones? What if Putin finds some clever ways of compensating for the losses? He's actively trying to improve his situation, not just sitting on his ass watching, as these predictions imply.
    - XorNot 2y ago
      And what if an asteroid destroys all the Russian forces..then what? Current Russian interest rates are 21% on cash, 15% on 10 year bonds[1] and the government is increasing spending on the war.[2] The wheels aren't going to come off immediately, but they've been reaching the peak of their ability. Or to put it another way: you're not clever for going "nah uh" and there's no such thing as magic. For the next 3 years Russia's economy is being tossed at the war entirely, and every dollar which is is coming at the expense of everything else. And this is all based on the heavily massaged Kremlin figures: they're not easy to lie about, but they're certainly also only ever going to be reported to try and shape a message of the type you're now parroting: you can't win so don't even try, Kremlin-strong, authoritarianism is just plain tougher then you decadent westerners. [1] https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-bond-yield https://tradingeconomics.com/russia/government-bond-yield [2] https://cepa.org/article/russia-budgets-for-its-forever-war/ https://cepa.org/article/russia-budgets-for-its-forever-war/

cmrdporcupine 2y ago

That Russian ideology is stuck in 19th century / WWI-era imperial mentality is their own problem. How they "perceive" Europe is their own concern. Europe mostly learned its lessons after WWII and is more interested in commerce and trade, not in battling over colonial possessions and ethnic partitioning. The games that the US (in Iraq, Syria etc.) and the Russians are playing have had nothing but negative effects on the world. US poked the hornets nest in Iraq/Syria and now Europe has had a refugee crisis for 10+ years. Russia butchering Ukraine the same.

coffeebeqn 2y ago

Scholz is a relic from a era that has ended. The new chancellor early next year will likely be much more anti-Russia. Another strategic win?