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>we could have fight for us C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. How could you possibly ask the qu

by PKop 2y ago

>we could have fight for us C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. How could you possibly ask the question "what business is that of ours"? Explain yourself, that question is absurd.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. They clearly want to fight! This is like arguing giving someone chemo is enabling their cancer.
- PKop 2y ago
  Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? They are running out of men they can find to fight, and for quite a while the government and military used very aggressive methods to force men into service. There is a huge desertion problem, in the military and the country itself. A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-soldiers-fight-russia-213354 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-s...
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? Who do you think? > A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight Yes, there is not unanimous agreement on a big political question. Shocking. By this measure, nobody should ever fight for everything.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight. A whole lot of people don't want to fight in any war. What matters is the relative portion. Though they my differ in the views as to whether the lost regions can be regained, or on what terms a cease-fire may be acceptable -- by all indications, a very solid majority of the society in non-occupied Ukraine supports the fight. Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? About 60-80 percent of the population. "Clearly" as in according to reliable polling data I can pull up later. Or by spending any amount of time talking to Ukrainians. There is a huge desertion problem, It is obviously a significant problem, but a better source is needed on the "huge" part. The link you provided does not support that view. If I hear "desertion is a huge problem", what comes to mind it the situation in Afghanstan after the notorious Trump-Biden pullout. The situation in Ukraine is nothing like that, not even remotely.
  - immibis 2y ago
    I guess you're right. Ukraine should let Russia exterminate the Ukrainians. 3 times as many people will die as died in the German extermination regime, but it's worth it to avoid conscription, right?
- sedan_baklazhan 2y ago
  Exactly because Ukrainians want to fight their borders are closed from the day one. Because the people that want to fight should be kept in their country by force, North Korea style. I’m not sure how it works, but well.
  - Sabinus 2y ago
    This perspective on conscription is odd to me. Countries do conscription during existential wars. The Allies used conscription in WW2. Was that wrong?
nobody9999 2y ago
>C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. I believe you're misinformed about that. The majority of committed support by country has come from the United States, whose total aid commitment is valued at about $75 billion. The U.S. is followed by Germany and the United Kingdom for highest commitments overall. The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $93 billion in aid to Ukraine.[0] While the US is largest donor by country, the EU as a whole has contributed more than the US.[1] Which is unsurprising, given the circumstances. So no. Ukraine funding is not entirely dependent on the US. Not even close. [0] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-countries-have-committed-the-most-aid-to-ukraine https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-co... [1] https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...
- GordonS 2y ago
  Right... but the EU is acting as US' proxy; the EU only threw all that money at the Ukraine (destroying itself economically in the process!) because of US "influence". Many EU countries are now little more than US vassals.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Many EU countries are now little more than US vassals They're nothing of the sort. Your perspective is seriously out of touch with reality.

by PKop 2y ago

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> What business is that of ours? We are enabling it. They clearly want to fight! This is like arguing giving someone chemo is enabling their cancer.

PKop 2y ago
Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? They are running out of men they can find to fight, and for quite a while the government and military used very aggressive methods to force men into service. There is a huge desertion problem, in the military and the country itself. A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight. https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-soldiers-fight-russia-213354 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraine-running-out-s...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? Who do you think? > A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight Yes, there is not unanimous agreement on a big political question. Shocking. By this measure, nobody should ever fight for everything.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  A whole lot of Ukrainians do not want to fight. A whole lot of people don't want to fight in any war. What matters is the relative portion. Though they my differ in the views as to whether the lost regions can be regained, or on what terms a cease-fire may be acceptable -- by all indications, a very solid majority of the society in non-occupied Ukraine supports the fight. Who is "they" and what is "clearly"? About 60-80 percent of the population. "Clearly" as in according to reliable polling data I can pull up later. Or by spending any amount of time talking to Ukrainians. There is a huge desertion problem, It is obviously a significant problem, but a better source is needed on the "huge" part. The link you provided does not support that view. If I hear "desertion is a huge problem", what comes to mind it the situation in Afghanstan after the notorious Trump-Biden pullout. The situation in Ukraine is nothing like that, not even remotely.
- immibis 2y ago
  I guess you're right. Ukraine should let Russia exterminate the Ukrainians. 3 times as many people will die as died in the German extermination regime, but it's worth it to avoid conscription, right?
sedan_baklazhan 2y ago
Exactly because Ukrainians want to fight their borders are closed from the day one. Because the people that want to fight should be kept in their country by force, North Korea style. I’m not sure how it works, but well.
- Sabinus 2y ago
  This perspective on conscription is odd to me. Countries do conscription during existential wars. The Allies used conscription in WW2. Was that wrong?

nobody9999 2y ago

>C'mon. Their funding is entirely US dependent. I believe you're misinformed about that. The majority of committed support by country has come from the United States, whose total aid commitment is valued at about $75 billion. The U.S. is followed by Germany and the United Kingdom for highest commitments overall. The European Union as a whole has committed approximately $93 billion in aid to Ukraine.[0] While the US is largest donor by country, the EU as a whole has contributed more than the US.[1] Which is unsurprising, given the circumstances. So no. Ukraine funding is not entirely dependent on the US. Not even close. [0] https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-countries-have-committed-the-most-aid-to-ukraine https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/these-co... [1] https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-s...

GordonS 2y ago
Right... but the EU is acting as US' proxy; the EU only threw all that money at the Ukraine (destroying itself economically in the process!) because of US "influence". Many EU countries are now little more than US vassals.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Many EU countries are now little more than US vassals They're nothing of the sort. Your perspective is seriously out of touch with reality.