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Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. Russia, ...as in: the mafia of the few profiteering rulers currently at the helm, is not fighting back a

Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. Russia, ...as in: the mafia of the few profiteering rulers currently at the helm, is not fighting back anything. Firstly, its mad Ukrainian adventure has meant it has made its border very defence-free on its border with Nato countries. Secondly, it is constantly attacking in hybrid warfare mode, paying local lowlife to do propaganda graffiti and sabotage. The appropriate response is to hold all responsible individuals accountable. Eventually the lower ranks will understand that playing along to Old-man-putin's tune of death won't bring them closer to anything but grief.

CapricornNoble 2y ago
> Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. See my response to sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42177029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42177029 Which NATO member was NATO defending when it bombed Libya into oblivion?
meiraleal 2y ago
[flagged]
- mantas 2y ago
  Coming from eastern europe… To us russia is the coloniser to us. What „West“ did in „global south“, russia just did the same to its neighbors. Even including racisty-chauvinisty element. Unfortunately russia has the strength to rape & pillage through neighbors once in a while.
- jiggawatts 2y ago
  > Lucky Russia to have the strength to make their enemies fear them. Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. And then imposed its own idea of peace that involves tanks rolling through Budapest and soldiers executing students and poets. Tiananmen square shocked the world, but that kind of behaviour was already familiar to Eastern Europeans. It was the same old song, different orchestra. Russia is not your friend, no matter what the propaganda tells you and your countrymen. You’re just momentarily useful to a warlike mafia controlling a country.
  - Delk 2y ago
    > Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. To be fair, historically Russia has also been a target of attacks and invasions repeatedly. (Generally not by the same smaller neighbours it has been attacking, of course.) That history has nothing to do with the present-day conflict, though, except that it might be a part of what gives some Russians a feeling of being threatened. And Soviet-style aggression is of course just imperialism by any other name.
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    > Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. The same can be said of the French, English and Germans, that only stop destroying themselves after they united to fight Russia (which ironically saved the first 2 against the last one otherwise they would not even exist as sovereign states anymore).
    - nozzlegear 2y ago
      > which ironically saved the first 2 against the last one otherwise I think you're forgetting somebody important? Another country that was actually on the beaches in Normandy?
- Delk 2y ago
  > How dare they not do what we tell them! What has NATO (or Western Europe) told Russia to do? What is NATO threatening or attacking Russia with due to it not doing what NATO wants?
- aguaviva 2y ago
  How dare they not do what we tell them! No one is telling Russia (meaning its current authoritarian regime) to do anything. Other than to pick up its toys, and get back to its own yard. And stay there, this time.
- the_why_of_y 2y ago
  Ironically(?), Russia's racism tends to dehumanize Caucasians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_genocide
valval 2y ago
Are you seriously telling me that the opposing side would care about what an alliance calls themselves? Hitler could call the axis powers a defensive allience and it wouldn’t make it so. Cmon, this is basic reasoning that most 10 year olds would grasp. NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors. A careful examination of the list below suggests that, in terms of your choice of the words "dozen" and "aggressor", the way they are usually meant in English -- you're definitely stretching things, here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
  - valval 2y ago
    I know what I said, and I was careful with my words. We have this thing going on in the west where we are the good guys, and every war we start is an anti-terrorist operation. For Russia, the term just now was “special military operation”. It’s hilarious when you realise how the world works. Controlling words means controlling minds. We’ve grown quite good at it. We went to Korea and took any of our allies who wanted to fight with us. We were already NATO then. Then we went to Vietnam. Then we meddled with some civil wars here and there. Did some “interventions” and took our NATO allies with us each time. Then we started proper pummelling the Middle East. To our adversaries, every single bullet that is shot by a NATO country is a NATO operation. It doesn’t take a full scale mobilisation, and it doesn’t matter what we call it internally. NATO is a military alliance, and our militaries are NATO’s militaries. Of course each time it was communists or terrorists we were killing so it doesn’t matter, right? It’s like these things happen in a vacuum and aren’t a result of our intrusive foreign policy. We don’t ever speak of the events leading up to 9/11. Crazy terrorists doing their thing, savages that they are? For some reason the Ukrainian neo-nazis killing people in Donbas aren’t that, though. Wrong side of history, I guess. And to be fair, I’m no pacifist. What I detest is trying to change the cold realities of life and making them seem like something they are not.
pretzel32 2y ago
It's a defensive alliance of peace, and freedom, and friendship! What kind of monster could possibly be against it?

CapricornNoble 2y ago

> Nato is a defensive alliance against any offensive act. See my response to sibling comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42177029 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42177029 Which NATO member was NATO defending when it bombed Libya into oblivion?

meiraleal 2y ago

[flagged]

mantas 2y ago
Coming from eastern europe… To us russia is the coloniser to us. What „West“ did in „global south“, russia just did the same to its neighbors. Even including racisty-chauvinisty element. Unfortunately russia has the strength to rape & pillage through neighbors once in a while.
jiggawatts 2y ago
> Lucky Russia to have the strength to make their enemies fear them. Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. And then imposed its own idea of peace that involves tanks rolling through Budapest and soldiers executing students and poets. Tiananmen square shocked the world, but that kind of behaviour was already familiar to Eastern Europeans. It was the same old song, different orchestra. Russia is not your friend, no matter what the propaganda tells you and your countrymen. You’re just momentarily useful to a warlike mafia controlling a country.
- Delk 2y ago
  > Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. To be fair, historically Russia has also been a target of attacks and invasions repeatedly. (Generally not by the same smaller neighbours it has been attacking, of course.) That history has nothing to do with the present-day conflict, though, except that it might be a part of what gives some Russians a feeling of being threatened. And Soviet-style aggression is of course just imperialism by any other name.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  > Russia has enemies because for centuries it has attacked its neighbours repeatedly. The same can be said of the French, English and Germans, that only stop destroying themselves after they united to fight Russia (which ironically saved the first 2 against the last one otherwise they would not even exist as sovereign states anymore).
  - nozzlegear 2y ago
    > which ironically saved the first 2 against the last one otherwise I think you're forgetting somebody important? Another country that was actually on the beaches in Normandy?
Delk 2y ago
> How dare they not do what we tell them! What has NATO (or Western Europe) told Russia to do? What is NATO threatening or attacking Russia with due to it not doing what NATO wants?
aguaviva 2y ago
How dare they not do what we tell them! No one is telling Russia (meaning its current authoritarian regime) to do anything. Other than to pick up its toys, and get back to its own yard. And stay there, this time.
the_why_of_y 2y ago
Ironically(?), Russia's racism tends to dehumanize Caucasians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_genocide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechen_genocide

valval 2y ago

Are you seriously telling me that the opposing side would care about what an alliance calls themselves? Hitler could call the axis powers a defensive allience and it wouldn’t make it so. Cmon, this is basic reasoning that most 10 year olds would grasp. NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors.

aguaviva 2y ago
NATO has engaged in a dozen wars and conflicts as aggressors. A careful examination of the list below suggests that, in terms of your choice of the words "dozen" and "aggressor", the way they are usually meant in English -- you're definitely stretching things, here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
- valval 2y ago
  I know what I said, and I was careful with my words. We have this thing going on in the west where we are the good guys, and every war we start is an anti-terrorist operation. For Russia, the term just now was “special military operation”. It’s hilarious when you realise how the world works. Controlling words means controlling minds. We’ve grown quite good at it. We went to Korea and took any of our allies who wanted to fight with us. We were already NATO then. Then we went to Vietnam. Then we meddled with some civil wars here and there. Did some “interventions” and took our NATO allies with us each time. Then we started proper pummelling the Middle East. To our adversaries, every single bullet that is shot by a NATO country is a NATO operation. It doesn’t take a full scale mobilisation, and it doesn’t matter what we call it internally. NATO is a military alliance, and our militaries are NATO’s militaries. Of course each time it was communists or terrorists we were killing so it doesn’t matter, right? It’s like these things happen in a vacuum and aren’t a result of our intrusive foreign policy. We don’t ever speak of the events leading up to 9/11. Crazy terrorists doing their thing, savages that they are? For some reason the Ukrainian neo-nazis killing people in Donbas aren’t that, though. Wrong side of history, I guess. And to be fair, I’m no pacifist. What I detest is trying to change the cold realities of life and making them seem like something they are not.

pretzel32 2y ago

It's a defensive alliance of peace, and freedom, and friendship! What kind of monster could possibly be against it?