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It’s a tough life and an isolating one. You have to live in wide open spaces with no one else nearby, but it also isn’t the idyllic land you think of. Economics

It’s a tough life and an isolating one. You have to live in wide open spaces with no one else nearby, but it also isn’t the idyllic land you think of. Economics means getting cornered into maximizing what you can get out of the land. Think tearing it up with machinery and planting giant areas with monocultures of high yield GMO crops. A lot of people have a fantasy version of farming in their head, where you have small plots of land, with diverse crops, wildlife, streams, and natural landscapes around you. Instead what you end up with is sort of a harsh outdoor factory for converting local resources (water, soil, etc) and additives (seeds, fertilizer, etc) into a very low margin product. All you can see from your modest home that you went into debt for is giant plots of land that are dusty and ripped up or covered in a single crop as far as the eye can see. Meanwhile, everyone from seed companies, to fertilizer companies, to John Deere, to insurance companies, to buyers of crops are squeezing you into nothing. Our system as a whole is problematic. We allow big companies to bully small players due to their capital or control over distribution or anti competitive practices or whatever. And farmers who are doing the actual work are in a place in the supply chain where they can be marginalized. Food is also insanely cheap for what it takes, when in truth it should cost more and reward these people for their hard work, which often leaves them with broken bodies. But when you are struggling to survive financially, and have a broken body, and have no community near you, and things are getting worse every year - it isn’t surprising where it leads.

kiba 2y ago
One of my relative complained about high food price. Then I expect imposition of tariff to spike food price even higher, ditto with immigrant deportation if it's actually implemented as the president elected suggested. You're right that the people who's making the literal food on our table should be well compensated, from farmhands to the farmers who own their land. However, what you're suggesting is putting people between a rock and a hard place. It would be easier to deal with if housing and transportation costs weren't so expensive though.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  I am not sure why you’re getting downvoted, as I think you raise some good points. Personally I think tariffs against China are valuable for geopolitical reasons, and think that might be a higher priority at a time when the CCP is unstable. But it will cause at least temporary pain for consumers, yes. I also don’t know the effect of deportation of illegal immigrants - my understanding is we have a (legal) way for seasonal agriculture workers to work in the US on some special visa. I’d be curious how many workers use or don’t use that program. As for putting people between a rock and a hard place. I guess I feel that all the companies abusing their positions of power are where I want money to come out of. For example, just because Walmart controls distribution to shoppers in their stores, they shouldn’t be able to bully farmers into zero margins. That cost should come out of Walmart’s bottom line (and therefore from owners and shareholders of Walmart). Likewise for the other big players in this ecosystem. But we have no laws or ability to do any of this. Just thinking out loud…
  - FactKnower69 2y ago
    >Personally I think tariffs against China are valuable for geopolitical reasons, and think that might be a higher priority at a time when the CCP is unstable. What exactly do you mean by this?
    - dgfitz 2y ago
      I don't know what the outcome of tariffs will be. but I do know Xi is terrified of them. I haven't seen any literature about what the possible, with a giant grain of salt, benefits would be of tariffs.
qwertyuiop_ 2y ago
If you switched the players it reads like the story of a tech worker.
thejazzman 2y ago
> tough life and an isolating one The people who live on these huge plots of land and have space LOVE IT and would choose nothing else. I grew up in western Pennsylvania. I hate living in a city and would absolutely choose to have my own farm lol. These are MAGA loud and proud people who could not be happier with where they are and what they do. I realize this just vary given the article here? But it's definitely not an accurate reflection of what I see and interact with
- tim333 2y ago
  I guess you have different economic setups. Owning a farm outright to live on sounds cool. Being a tenant farmer or having a lot of debt on it sounds stressful. I'm guessing a lot of the suicides are the latter. My dad had a farm as more of a wealthy hobby farmer and it was a nice thing to have. It also did well economically but not in the obvious way - land prices shot up in spite of the actual farming making basically no money. It also had a 100% inheritance tax break (UK) which was nice and probably not totally justified in my dad's case. The farmers, including Clarkson, are marching in London today to protest changing that one. The economics of farming can be complicated.

kiba 2y ago

One of my relative complained about high food price. Then I expect imposition of tariff to spike food price even higher, ditto with immigrant deportation if it's actually implemented as the president elected suggested. You're right that the people who's making the literal food on our table should be well compensated, from farmhands to the farmers who own their land. However, what you're suggesting is putting people between a rock and a hard place. It would be easier to deal with if housing and transportation costs weren't so expensive though.

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I am not sure why you’re getting downvoted, as I think you raise some good points. Personally I think tariffs against China are valuable for geopolitical reasons, and think that might be a higher priority at a time when the CCP is unstable. But it will cause at least temporary pain for consumers, yes. I also don’t know the effect of deportation of illegal immigrants - my understanding is we have a (legal) way for seasonal agriculture workers to work in the US on some special visa. I’d be curious how many workers use or don’t use that program. As for putting people between a rock and a hard place. I guess I feel that all the companies abusing their positions of power are where I want money to come out of. For example, just because Walmart controls distribution to shoppers in their stores, they shouldn’t be able to bully farmers into zero margins. That cost should come out of Walmart’s bottom line (and therefore from owners and shareholders of Walmart). Likewise for the other big players in this ecosystem. But we have no laws or ability to do any of this. Just thinking out loud…
- FactKnower69 2y ago
  >Personally I think tariffs against China are valuable for geopolitical reasons, and think that might be a higher priority at a time when the CCP is unstable. What exactly do you mean by this?
  - dgfitz 2y ago
    I don't know what the outcome of tariffs will be. but I do know Xi is terrified of them. I haven't seen any literature about what the possible, with a giant grain of salt, benefits would be of tariffs.

qwertyuiop_ 2y ago

If you switched the players it reads like the story of a tech worker.

thejazzman 2y ago

> tough life and an isolating one The people who live on these huge plots of land and have space LOVE IT and would choose nothing else. I grew up in western Pennsylvania. I hate living in a city and would absolutely choose to have my own farm lol. These are MAGA loud and proud people who could not be happier with where they are and what they do. I realize this just vary given the article here? But it's definitely not an accurate reflection of what I see and interact with

tim333 2y ago
I guess you have different economic setups. Owning a farm outright to live on sounds cool. Being a tenant farmer or having a lot of debt on it sounds stressful. I'm guessing a lot of the suicides are the latter. My dad had a farm as more of a wealthy hobby farmer and it was a nice thing to have. It also did well economically but not in the obvious way - land prices shot up in spite of the actual farming making basically no money. It also had a 100% inheritance tax break (UK) which was nice and probably not totally justified in my dad's case. The farmers, including Clarkson, are marching in London today to protest changing that one. The economics of farming can be complicated.