6 ms·

TeX Live 2012 released

71 points by krzysz00 14y ago

kghose 14y ago
http://tug.org/texlive/ http://tug.org/texlive/
matt4711 14y ago
It is very unfortunate that ubuntu 12.04 is still only shipping texlive 2009. I think 12.10 will include texlive 2011 or 2012 (hopefully).
- andreasvc 14y ago
  Indeed, 12.04 will contain texlive 2012: http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/texlive http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/texlive
  - tomku 14y ago
    I think you mean 12.10, if you're linking to Quantal.
    - andreasvc 14y ago
      Indeed.
- eiji 14y ago
  I have to ask a rhetorical question: What does the version of ubuntu has to do with the version of texlive?
  - matt4711 14y ago
    If you use the ubuntu/debian package management system to install texlive (e.g. apt-get install texlive-full) you get a version that contains packages from 3 years ago. These often contain bugs that have long been fixed or are incompatible with tools they interface with (e.g. gnuplot/pgf).
- einhverfr 14y ago
  Maybe not quite directed at you but this touches on a different negative experience I have had. One of the interesting problems I have had with various parts of the TexLive community (not sure if it is everywhere) is an unwillingness to discuss support for older versions. It is one thing to desire that cutting-edge releases release relatively cutting-edge versions. It is very different to insist that long term support distros keep up with the cutting edge. My software runs on servers. I have no expectation that we will see current TexLive versions installed and every expectation that we won't. Yet we do the best we can and when something blows up (xelatex complaining about being outdated and having to be configured from the command-line) we address it. It's just discouraging to hear over and over that we should be requiring the latest and greatest.
  - matt4711 14y ago
    can't you just keep installing texlive 2010 (for example) to get a "stable" snapshot?
    - einhverfr 14y ago
      The problem is that in most servers, the admins are going to greatly prefer working with the distribution folks to ensure everything is properly maintained and secure. Consequently there is a huge bias towards what is on the repos, and a huge bias against installing more than you have to from external sources. This is one reason we are working in getting into repos (we will be in Ubuntu and are already in Debian Testing btw). So no, that doesn't work. What does work and keeps our customers happy is making sure that what we have works with what versions they get from their vendors. TeX is not just for desktops. It is a wonderful part of an automatic document generation system. In case you are wondering what we are doing, the project is LedgerSMB (http://www.ledgersmb.org http://www.ledgersmb.org) and we use TeXLive mostly for generating PDF invoices, purchase orders, etc, along with Perl modules like Template::Plugin::Latex (unfortunately XeTeX requires hacking some of our dependencies currently :-( but that's not the TeXLive folks' fault!) Anyway I think we are still supporting TexLive 2007.....
      - 14y ago
- mkl 14y ago
  This could be useful: https://launchpad.net/~texlive-backports/+archive/ppa/ https://launchpad.net/~texlive-backports/+archive/ppa/ TeXLive 2012 in Ubuntu 12.04. I just found it so I haven't tried it yet.
mih 14y ago
Does anyone see a good reason for MikTeX users to switch to TeX Live?
- patrickg 14y ago
  See the discussion here: http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/20036/243 http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/20036/243
mrbill 14y ago
I have to shake my head at the total distribution size. Of course, I'm downloading it - but damn.
mark_l_watson 14y ago
For OS/X it looks like TexShop has an update also: http://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/ http://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/ I have written several books using TexShop - love it.
farslan 14y ago
I've dealt with Packaging of Texlive for a Linux distro. My god, it was the worst experience I ever had. They should first fix this mess. Because of this mess every distro at least has an outdated Texlive.
- patrickg 14y ago
  Easy to say and hard to do. TeX distributions are getting more complex and much bigger, while at the same time providing a _much_ better user experience than a few years ago. TeX live for example has the "full" distribution scheme as default and the users always never have to install things found somewhere on the net by themselves. It just works for most people around us. As soon as you start splitting things up, it's hard for the users to follow. "We" keep getting questions from Linux users that "package X is not available and how can I install it? I've tried [many horrible things]?" The answer is usually "install package texlive-something" of your distro. For these users the user experience is worse than installing the full texlive. One really nice thing is with current texlive (> 2011) is that you can get updates between release cycles. This also makes (IMO) the user experience much better but is in contradiction to what most distros need.
- dfc 14y ago
  This is why I am eternally grateful to Norbert Preining...
  - farslan 14y ago
    I know him (not personal tough), but I read several documents and how-to's of him. As you mentioned I think he has really done an extra ordinary work.
- norbusan 14y ago
  What do you mean with "fix this mess"? I have done the first packaging of TeX Live ever for Debian in 2005, and I am responsible also for the "mess" upstream, so if you have complains, esp what you want to get "fixed", then be more specific!
Craiggybear 14y ago
OK, so far, I have found it is definitely faster on OS X than before. Nice job -- looking forward to discovering more.
JadeNB 14y ago
Has anyone who used the pre-test build had trouble with this switch? Since the `pretest` repository that I was using went away, I had to switch repositories, so: $ tlmgr option repository http://ctan.mackichan.com/ but then: $ tlmgr update --self tlmgr: Cannot load TeX Live database from http://ctan.mackichan.com/ This doesn't seem to be an issue with the specific mirror; browsing to the mirror manually shows that it is live, and changing the mirror doesn't help. `tlmgr` has been updating just fine (from the old `pretest` mirror) for months, so I don't think it's an installation issue.
- norbusan 14y ago
  That is a CTAN mirror, and not a path to a tlnet. You have to use http://ctan.mackichan.com/systems/texlive/tlnet http://ctan.mackichan.com/systems/texlive/tlnet and that works fine.
  - JadeNB 14y ago
    Ha, I always forget that! Thanks!

71 points by krzysz00 14y ago

http://tug.org/texlive/ http://tug.org/texlive/

It is very unfortunate that ubuntu 12.04 is still only shipping texlive 2009. I think 12.10 will include texlive 2011 or 2012 (hopefully).

andreasvc 14y ago
Indeed, 12.04 will contain texlive 2012: http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/texlive http://packages.ubuntu.com/quantal/texlive
- tomku 14y ago
  I think you mean 12.10, if you're linking to Quantal.
  - andreasvc 14y ago
    Indeed.
eiji 14y ago
I have to ask a rhetorical question: What does the version of ubuntu has to do with the version of texlive?
- matt4711 14y ago
  If you use the ubuntu/debian package management system to install texlive (e.g. apt-get install texlive-full) you get a version that contains packages from 3 years ago. These often contain bugs that have long been fixed or are incompatible with tools they interface with (e.g. gnuplot/pgf).
einhverfr 14y ago
Maybe not quite directed at you but this touches on a different negative experience I have had. One of the interesting problems I have had with various parts of the TexLive community (not sure if it is everywhere) is an unwillingness to discuss support for older versions. It is one thing to desire that cutting-edge releases release relatively cutting-edge versions. It is very different to insist that long term support distros keep up with the cutting edge. My software runs on servers. I have no expectation that we will see current TexLive versions installed and every expectation that we won't. Yet we do the best we can and when something blows up (xelatex complaining about being outdated and having to be configured from the command-line) we address it. It's just discouraging to hear over and over that we should be requiring the latest and greatest.
- matt4711 14y ago
  can't you just keep installing texlive 2010 (for example) to get a "stable" snapshot?
  - einhverfr 14y ago
    The problem is that in most servers, the admins are going to greatly prefer working with the distribution folks to ensure everything is properly maintained and secure. Consequently there is a huge bias towards what is on the repos, and a huge bias against installing more than you have to from external sources. This is one reason we are working in getting into repos (we will be in Ubuntu and are already in Debian Testing btw). So no, that doesn't work. What does work and keeps our customers happy is making sure that what we have works with what versions they get from their vendors. TeX is not just for desktops. It is a wonderful part of an automatic document generation system. In case you are wondering what we are doing, the project is LedgerSMB (http://www.ledgersmb.org http://www.ledgersmb.org) and we use TeXLive mostly for generating PDF invoices, purchase orders, etc, along with Perl modules like Template::Plugin::Latex (unfortunately XeTeX requires hacking some of our dependencies currently :-( but that's not the TeXLive folks' fault!) Anyway I think we are still supporting TexLive 2007.....
    - 14y ago
mkl 14y ago
This could be useful: https://launchpad.net/~texlive-backports/+archive/ppa/ https://launchpad.net/~texlive-backports/+archive/ppa/ TeXLive 2012 in Ubuntu 12.04. I just found it so I haven't tried it yet.

mih 14y ago

Does anyone see a good reason for MikTeX users to switch to TeX Live?

patrickg 14y ago
See the discussion here: http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/20036/243 http://tex.stackexchange.com/q/20036/243

mrbill 14y ago

I have to shake my head at the total distribution size. Of course, I'm downloading it - but damn.

mark_l_watson 14y ago

For OS/X it looks like TexShop has an update also: http://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/ http://pages.uoregon.edu/koch/texshop/ I have written several books using TexShop - love it.

farslan 14y ago

I've dealt with Packaging of Texlive for a Linux distro. My god, it was the worst experience I ever had. They should first fix this mess. Because of this mess every distro at least has an outdated Texlive.

patrickg 14y ago
Easy to say and hard to do. TeX distributions are getting more complex and much bigger, while at the same time providing a _much_ better user experience than a few years ago. TeX live for example has the "full" distribution scheme as default and the users always never have to install things found somewhere on the net by themselves. It just works for most people around us. As soon as you start splitting things up, it's hard for the users to follow. "We" keep getting questions from Linux users that "package X is not available and how can I install it? I've tried [many horrible things]?" The answer is usually "install package texlive-something" of your distro. For these users the user experience is worse than installing the full texlive. One really nice thing is with current texlive (> 2011) is that you can get updates between release cycles. This also makes (IMO) the user experience much better but is in contradiction to what most distros need.
dfc 14y ago
This is why I am eternally grateful to Norbert Preining...
- farslan 14y ago
  I know him (not personal tough), but I read several documents and how-to's of him. As you mentioned I think he has really done an extra ordinary work.
norbusan 14y ago
What do you mean with "fix this mess"? I have done the first packaging of TeX Live ever for Debian in 2005, and I am responsible also for the "mess" upstream, so if you have complains, esp what you want to get "fixed", then be more specific!

Craiggybear 14y ago

OK, so far, I have found it is definitely faster on OS X than before. Nice job -- looking forward to discovering more.

JadeNB 14y ago

Has anyone who used the pre-test build had trouble with this switch? Since the `pretest` repository that I was using went away, I had to switch repositories, so: $ tlmgr option repository http://ctan.mackichan.com/ but then: $ tlmgr update --self tlmgr: Cannot load TeX Live database from http://ctan.mackichan.com/ This doesn't seem to be an issue with the specific mirror; browsing to the mirror manually shows that it is live, and changing the mirror doesn't help. `tlmgr` has been updating just fine (from the old `pretest` mirror) for months, so I don't think it's an installation issue.

norbusan 14y ago
That is a CTAN mirror, and not a path to a tlnet. You have to use http://ctan.mackichan.com/systems/texlive/tlnet http://ctan.mackichan.com/systems/texlive/tlnet and that works fine.
- JadeNB 14y ago
  Ha, I always forget that! Thanks!