5 ms·

I don't see why they must occur, only that they have occurred. Can you explain?

by jvanderbot 2y ago

triceratops 2y ago
If they didn't occur, we wouldn't be here to note that they didn't occur.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  That is certainly evidence that they have occurred but is not evidence that they will always occur.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    If they never occurred there would be no one to note this lack of occurrence.
    - jvanderbot 2y ago
      And we've come full circle back to the anthropic principle, which does not imply that all universes eventually evolve life (it implies that if you are alive, you life in a universe that can create life)... so I am officially being trolled here. The universe (OUR universe) must be configured to allow life to exist (obviously, b/c we do). Not the same as All universes (in any configuration) will allow life to exist.
      - triceratops 2y ago
        > Not the same as All universes (in any configuration) will allow life to exist. Sorry I didn't realize that was the argument being made. I thought it was it's inevitable for there to be at least one universe that will evolve life. Not trying to troll you.
        jvanderbot 2y ago
        > I thought it was it's inevitable for there to be at least one universe that will evolve life. Oh man, here we go. I'm not sure that's true either. Unless you believe that all possible universes will eventually occur. In which case carry on, no truth/falsehoods exist at that level that I know of.
      - zero-sharp 2y ago
        If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you and I have no idea what everyone else is smoking.
      - GoblinSlayer 2y ago
        By our universe you mean the part of the universe that we observe? Like people believed the world ends at the sky firmament? How would you explain them why uninhabitable planets don't exist? If all universes start in the same state and evolve deterministically, then they go through the same evolution, then if one produces life, then all produce life.
thrance 2y ago
It's the Anthropic Principle[1], basically it's the idea that those coincidences having occured can be explained by the fact that if they didn't, we wouldn't exist, and thus there would be no one to wonder why they happened. In other words, those coincidence happened necessarily, in a way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  What he said is not the anthropic principle. He said these coincidences must always occur. That's not true. They have occurred in at least one universe, solar system and planet: ours. But these conditions are not inevitable.
  - francisofascii 2y ago
    Right. It sounds more like the survivorship bias fallacy.

I don't see why they must occur, only that they have occurred. Can you explain?

triceratops 2y ago

If they didn't occur, we wouldn't be here to note that they didn't occur.

jvanderbot 2y ago
That is certainly evidence that they have occurred but is not evidence that they will always occur.
- triceratops 2y ago
  If they never occurred there would be no one to note this lack of occurrence.
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    And we've come full circle back to the anthropic principle, which does not imply that all universes eventually evolve life (it implies that if you are alive, you life in a universe that can create life)... so I am officially being trolled here. The universe (OUR universe) must be configured to allow life to exist (obviously, b/c we do). Not the same as All universes (in any configuration) will allow life to exist.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      > Not the same as All universes (in any configuration) will allow life to exist. Sorry I didn't realize that was the argument being made. I thought it was it's inevitable for there to be at least one universe that will evolve life. Not trying to troll you.
      - jvanderbot 2y ago
        > I thought it was it's inevitable for there to be at least one universe that will evolve life. Oh man, here we go. I'm not sure that's true either. Unless you believe that all possible universes will eventually occur. In which case carry on, no truth/falsehoods exist at that level that I know of.
    - zero-sharp 2y ago
      If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you and I have no idea what everyone else is smoking.
    - GoblinSlayer 2y ago
      By our universe you mean the part of the universe that we observe? Like people believed the world ends at the sky firmament? How would you explain them why uninhabitable planets don't exist? If all universes start in the same state and evolve deterministically, then they go through the same evolution, then if one produces life, then all produce life.

thrance 2y ago

It's the Anthropic Principle[1], basically it's the idea that those coincidences having occured can be explained by the fact that if they didn't, we wouldn't exist, and thus there would be no one to wonder why they happened. In other words, those coincidence happened necessarily, in a way. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

jvanderbot 2y ago
What he said is not the anthropic principle. He said these coincidences must always occur. That's not true. They have occurred in at least one universe, solar system and planet: ours. But these conditions are not inevitable.
- francisofascii 2y ago
  Right. It sounds more like the survivorship bias fallacy.