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> The militarization of law enforcement and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. Do you mean for the US, rather than the human race? Some

> The militarization of law enforcement and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. Do you mean for the US, rather than the human race? Some of us live in countries where the only weapons most cops carry are truncheons and tasers.

xkcd-sucks 2y ago
The weapons are orthogonal to the culture; most of the police abuse volume is in beating, arrest and confinement, property destruction and confiscation, etc. The shootings make news, but lots of people don't get shot and still suffer lasting material consequences
- graemep 2y ago
  I agree those are problems in many places (and to some extent will be with anywhere), but would not describe them as militarisation.
chgs 2y ago
Whats bad for the US is bad for the rest of the world. America uses its outsized influence to impact the entire world
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  Plenty of countries are benefiting from U.S. mistakes and ‘badness’…
righthand 2y ago
And yet your country may have an NYPD office.
dowager_dan99 2y ago
This is at best naive, and reads pretty smug and self-satisfied. You likely still have a military, and policing isn't really about the weapons a cop carries. Ironically less deadly weapons can encourage more liberal use, so maybe you can be proud of your higher rate of non-lethal beatings?
- graemep 2y ago
  Someone subjected to a non-lethal beating can complain, and be a witness to what happened. They can be medically examined to determine what happened. Its far harder to cover up. I am pretty happy with the police hardly ever killing anyone, and that almost always someone who is a real danger to others. I am happy fewer people being killed by police so far this decade (and that includes road accidents involving police!), than have been killed by police in the US so far this month.
bko 2y ago
Its not just the weapons. In parts of Europe you can get arrested for posting the wrong kind of meme online. As a side note, when trying to research this you'll see weird double speak fact checks like below: > Fact Check: 11-year-old arrested on suspicion of violent disorder after riots, not ‘mean tweets’ > Sending grossly offensive, obscene, indecent, or menacing messages on public electronic communication networks is a criminal offence in Britain under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 > Misleading. An 11-year-old was arrested on suspicion of violent disorder, not for social media posts, during a swathe of arrests by British police targeting those involved in rioting. But then the authors don't write what 'violent disorder' is. Then they try to further confuse the matter by talking about a completely unrealted 11 year old boy that was arrested for suspicion of arson > The spokesperson said the 11-year-old, one of five juveniles arrested on suspicion of violent disorder by the force on Aug. 28 in relation to the riots, was later bailed. > Cleveland Police arrested another 11-year-old on suspicion of arson after a police vehicle was set alight in Hartlepool on July 31, according to the spokesperson and an Aug. 1 statement, opens new tab . The child was also released on bail, the spokesperson said. And this isn't some weird online political rag, it's Reuters. It's all very strange. https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/11-year-old-arrested-suspicion-violent-disorder-after-riots-not-mean-tweets-2024-08-30/ https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/11-year-old-arrested-susp...
- growse 2y ago
  > But then the authors don't write what 'violent disorder' is. "Violent Disorder" is a specific offence listed in the Public Order Act. > Then they try to further confuse the matter by talking about a completely unrealted 11 year old boy that was arrested for suspicion of arson The way it reads doesn't seem like it's "completely unrelated" at all.
  - bko 2y ago
    > "Violent Disorder" is a specific offence listed in the Public Order Act. So the article should explain it. > The way it reads doesn't seem like it's "completely unrelated" at all. How is this related apart from the person sharing the same age and the town being the same? One is suspected of arson and the other of Violent Disorder? Does this add value to the fact check?
cmuguythrow 2y ago
FYI this is a reference to the opening statement of the Unabomber Manifesto "Industrial Society and its Future". Don't think OP meant anything by the distinction of US/humans > The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. https://ia600300.us.archive.org/30/items/the-ted-k-archive-texts-backup-april-2023/i/is/industrial-society-and-its-future.pdf https://ia600300.us.archive.org/30/items/the-ted-k-archive-t...
- graemep 2y ago
  Is this an obvious reference? Do people often know the text of this, or of bits of it?
  - acureau 2y ago
    Fairly obvious for those who've spent enough time online, I'd say most people would only recognize that first sentence. The Unabomber Manifesto has become something of a copypasta
    - a96 2y ago
      In my four decades or so, I've never seen that.
      - whtsthmttrmn 2y ago
        Are you US-based?
        e40 2y ago
        US based, at UCB in the 80s, didn’t recognize it.
elzbardico 2y ago
It would obviously fuck with the cultural reference replacing US for the world in the phrase. But if you believe that only the US has this problem, I am sad to inform you that Taylor Swift and Hollywood Movies are not the only American cultural exports eagerly consumed around the world.
magnetowasright 2y ago
It's a bit more complicated than just equipment I reckon. Australian cops don't necessarily use literal military equipment (as frequently as US cops) but they sure know how to and make time to beat and rough ride someone within an inch of their lives, harass and arrest political youtuber staff members (friendly jordies) for literally no reason, or tase people to death (a tiny ~92 year old demented lady at a nursing home with a blunt steak knife, for example) at impressive scale. Aboriginal Australians couldn't be the most incarcerated peoples on earth without the dedication of our repugnant police forces. It speaks to militarisation or being a disaster to me despite not rolling out the tanks because of the severity of responses is still utterly beyond reason and has basically the same outcomes including no repercussions for going so far beyond what could possibly be justified even when there actually is danger or a crime happening.

xkcd-sucks 2y ago

The weapons are orthogonal to the culture; most of the police abuse volume is in beating, arrest and confinement, property destruction and confiscation, etc. The shootings make news, but lots of people don't get shot and still suffer lasting material consequences

graemep 2y ago
I agree those are problems in many places (and to some extent will be with anywhere), but would not describe them as militarisation.

chgs 2y ago

Whats bad for the US is bad for the rest of the world. America uses its outsized influence to impact the entire world

MichaelZuo 2y ago
Plenty of countries are benefiting from U.S. mistakes and ‘badness’…

righthand 2y ago

And yet your country may have an NYPD office.

dowager_dan99 2y ago

This is at best naive, and reads pretty smug and self-satisfied. You likely still have a military, and policing isn't really about the weapons a cop carries. Ironically less deadly weapons can encourage more liberal use, so maybe you can be proud of your higher rate of non-lethal beatings?

graemep 2y ago
Someone subjected to a non-lethal beating can complain, and be a witness to what happened. They can be medically examined to determine what happened. Its far harder to cover up. I am pretty happy with the police hardly ever killing anyone, and that almost always someone who is a real danger to others. I am happy fewer people being killed by police so far this decade (and that includes road accidents involving police!), than have been killed by police in the US so far this month.

bko 2y ago

Its not just the weapons. In parts of Europe you can get arrested for posting the wrong kind of meme online. As a side note, when trying to research this you'll see weird double speak fact checks like below: > Fact Check: 11-year-old arrested on suspicion of violent disorder after riots, not ‘mean tweets’ > Sending grossly offensive, obscene, indecent, or menacing messages on public electronic communication networks is a criminal offence in Britain under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003 > Misleading. An 11-year-old was arrested on suspicion of violent disorder, not for social media posts, during a swathe of arrests by British police targeting those involved in rioting. But then the authors don't write what 'violent disorder' is. Then they try to further confuse the matter by talking about a completely unrealted 11 year old boy that was arrested for suspicion of arson > The spokesperson said the 11-year-old, one of five juveniles arrested on suspicion of violent disorder by the force on Aug. 28 in relation to the riots, was later bailed. > Cleveland Police arrested another 11-year-old on suspicion of arson after a police vehicle was set alight in Hartlepool on July 31, according to the spokesperson and an Aug. 1 statement, opens new tab . The child was also released on bail, the spokesperson said. And this isn't some weird online political rag, it's Reuters. It's all very strange. https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/11-year-old-arrested-suspicion-violent-disorder-after-riots-not-mean-tweets-2024-08-30/ https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/11-year-old-arrested-susp...

growse 2y ago
> But then the authors don't write what 'violent disorder' is. "Violent Disorder" is a specific offence listed in the Public Order Act. > Then they try to further confuse the matter by talking about a completely unrealted 11 year old boy that was arrested for suspicion of arson The way it reads doesn't seem like it's "completely unrelated" at all.
- bko 2y ago
  > "Violent Disorder" is a specific offence listed in the Public Order Act. So the article should explain it. > The way it reads doesn't seem like it's "completely unrelated" at all. How is this related apart from the person sharing the same age and the town being the same? One is suspected of arson and the other of Violent Disorder? Does this add value to the fact check?

cmuguythrow 2y ago

FYI this is a reference to the opening statement of the Unabomber Manifesto "Industrial Society and its Future". Don't think OP meant anything by the distinction of US/humans > The Industrial Revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. https://ia600300.us.archive.org/30/items/the-ted-k-archive-texts-backup-april-2023/i/is/industrial-society-and-its-future.pdf https://ia600300.us.archive.org/30/items/the-ted-k-archive-t...

graemep 2y ago
Is this an obvious reference? Do people often know the text of this, or of bits of it?
- acureau 2y ago
  Fairly obvious for those who've spent enough time online, I'd say most people would only recognize that first sentence. The Unabomber Manifesto has become something of a copypasta
  - a96 2y ago
    In my four decades or so, I've never seen that.
    - whtsthmttrmn 2y ago
      Are you US-based?
      - e40 2y ago
        US based, at UCB in the 80s, didn’t recognize it.

elzbardico 2y ago

It would obviously fuck with the cultural reference replacing US for the world in the phrase. But if you believe that only the US has this problem, I am sad to inform you that Taylor Swift and Hollywood Movies are not the only American cultural exports eagerly consumed around the world.

magnetowasright 2y ago

It's a bit more complicated than just equipment I reckon. Australian cops don't necessarily use literal military equipment (as frequently as US cops) but they sure know how to and make time to beat and rough ride someone within an inch of their lives, harass and arrest political youtuber staff members (friendly jordies) for literally no reason, or tase people to death (a tiny ~92 year old demented lady at a nursing home with a blunt steak knife, for example) at impressive scale. Aboriginal Australians couldn't be the most incarcerated peoples on earth without the dedication of our repugnant police forces. It speaks to militarisation or being a disaster to me despite not rolling out the tanks because of the severity of responses is still utterly beyond reason and has basically the same outcomes including no repercussions for going so far beyond what could possibly be justified even when there actually is danger or a crime happening.