4 ms·

U.S is outperforming everyone else economically. At what cost though? And for how long? There is an insane wealth gap. People always seem to be stressed. Ther

by akudha 2y ago

U.S is outperforming everyone else economically. At what cost though? And for how long? There is an insane wealth gap. People always seem to be stressed. There is plenty of food, but quality isn’t great. We don’t even need to start on healthcare and housing and college tuition. Then there is gun violence. Women’s rights are going away slowly too. Sure, developing countries have lots of problems too. I suppose each person has to decide what kind of problems they are ok dealing with? Sad part is - most of these problems are man made. Even sadder is that just a few dozen people seem to be the cause for most problems

FredPret 2y ago
> There is an insane wealth gap. Your unexamined prior is that this is a bad and unsustainable thing. It was always thus. > People always seem to be stressed. They really aren't. Americans are extremely happy and relaxed compared to where I'm from. > We don’t even need to start on healthcare and housing and college tuition. I think we do. Healthcare in the US has more red tape and expense than would be optimal, but the actual outcomes are still good. Keep in mind some caveats: - US healthcare spend drives a ton of medical innovation that then benefits the rest of the world - North America is going through a Fentanyl crisis that's cutting life expectancies > Then there is gun violence. Women’s rights are going away slowly too. This is a problem but not with the economy.
- BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
  Women's rights may be more of a problem with the economy than one thinks - pressure on those rights aren't necessarily just ideological. Zooming in on this one aspect within the bigger picture, at a country level you can shape the economy via controlling immigration (do we welcome brains? do we welcome labor?) and via controlling natality (do we need to make our own labor?). If a country is hostile to immigration or limits immigration to an elite, I can well imagine eroding women's rights for purely economical reasons - needing labourers the country is not willing to welcome from abroad. Could also be done with incentives instead of taking away rights but different debate. Womens' rights determine if/how/where women can contribute to the economy, and how easily.
returningfory2 2y ago
> I suppose each person has to decide what kind of problems they are ok dealing with? What problems do you think people in the United States have that people in Mexico don't? Of this list you gave, most of them seem to apply to people in Mexico.
- akudha 2y ago
  I was talking about immigrants. If you are deciding between two countries, each one is likely going to have a different type or level of problems - man made or otherwise. Australia is too hot, Canada is too cold. Scandinavia might be too progressive for some, Saudi Arabia might be too regressive for some. And so on. What kind/level of issues to put up with - I suppose that varies from person to person
  - BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
    I agree with you, but for anyone reading this who considers immigration: that's just a third of the decision - another third of the problems is only visible once you live there a while, and the last third is the same problems you had before that you take with you.
sifar 2y ago
>> There is an insane wealth gap. Relative wealth gap in developing countries dwarfs that of the developed ones. Source: Personal observation.
- Timon3 2y ago
  Is there a reason to trust your anecdote instead of looking at data? I'm sure this topic has been researched.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - baq 2y ago
    Yeah it’s called the gini index. US isn’t great but isn’t anywhere near the worst. In absolute terms though just look at pictures of e.g. rural Russia va Moscow.
    - Timon3 2y ago
      Thank you for bringing up this data point! I'm sure we both agree that's a much better argument than "trust me" :)
      - sifar 2y ago
        I understand, however it was a disclaimer not a "trust me". One of the main reason such metrics are not as reflective of the reality is that for developing countries, the taxes are not reported accurately. A lot of wealth is officially unreported - and it is a massive amount. Such things are not captured by official statistics, by virtue of being unreported income, which leads to an incomplete or distorted picture of reality.
- FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_wealth_inequality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_we... tl;dr as of 2021 Gini coefficents, Brazil is the worst and Japan is best large nation... (there's tons of nuance missing here, but that's the basics)
psunavy03 2y ago
The violent crime rate in the US is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. The only difference is that now every crime is getting blasted from the rooftops by the news media as propaganda to generate clicks on ads. There is a violent crime problem in specific neighborhoods of specific cities, largely tied to gangs and the drug trade. But there is zero empirical data to suggest that it is more of a nationwide problem than it was in the 1980s and 1990s. The majority of gun deaths in this country (60-80 percent jurisdiction-dependent) are people committing suicide, often middle-aged men. Beyond that, the average gun murder is a young man with a criminal record killing another young man with a criminal record using an illegally-possessed handgun.
- returningfory2 2y ago
  There's also the fact that way more Americans are killed by cars than in homicides. This is not to diminish the importance of tackling homicides. But the high level picture of "what is most wrong in America" is definitely skewed in weird ways that is independent of the underlying reality.
- fuzztester 2y ago
  >The violent crime rate in the US is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. The only difference is that now every crime is getting blasted from the rooftops by the news media as propaganda to generate clicks on ads. How about all the mass shootings that we read about, happening every few weeks or even more frequently, sometimes back-to-back, on average, in the US? That's not violent crime? Of course it is. >a fraction of what it was 30 years ago And statistics don't paint the full picture, not by a long chalk, unless all you are is a bean counter. What about the personal and family and friends' trauma of all the victims and their circles? We can dismiss that as negligible, right? /s Check these: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_th... There were so many that I got tired of scrolling. JFC.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]

by akudha 2y ago

FredPret 2y ago

> There is an insane wealth gap. Your unexamined prior is that this is a bad and unsustainable thing. It was always thus. > People always seem to be stressed. They really aren't. Americans are extremely happy and relaxed compared to where I'm from. > We don’t even need to start on healthcare and housing and college tuition. I think we do. Healthcare in the US has more red tape and expense than would be optimal, but the actual outcomes are still good. Keep in mind some caveats: - US healthcare spend drives a ton of medical innovation that then benefits the rest of the world - North America is going through a Fentanyl crisis that's cutting life expectancies > Then there is gun violence. Women’s rights are going away slowly too. This is a problem but not with the economy.

BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
Women's rights may be more of a problem with the economy than one thinks - pressure on those rights aren't necessarily just ideological. Zooming in on this one aspect within the bigger picture, at a country level you can shape the economy via controlling immigration (do we welcome brains? do we welcome labor?) and via controlling natality (do we need to make our own labor?). If a country is hostile to immigration or limits immigration to an elite, I can well imagine eroding women's rights for purely economical reasons - needing labourers the country is not willing to welcome from abroad. Could also be done with incentives instead of taking away rights but different debate. Womens' rights determine if/how/where women can contribute to the economy, and how easily.

returningfory2 2y ago

> I suppose each person has to decide what kind of problems they are ok dealing with? What problems do you think people in the United States have that people in Mexico don't? Of this list you gave, most of them seem to apply to people in Mexico.

akudha 2y ago
I was talking about immigrants. If you are deciding between two countries, each one is likely going to have a different type or level of problems - man made or otherwise. Australia is too hot, Canada is too cold. Scandinavia might be too progressive for some, Saudi Arabia might be too regressive for some. And so on. What kind/level of issues to put up with - I suppose that varies from person to person
- BehindBlueEyes 2y ago
  I agree with you, but for anyone reading this who considers immigration: that's just a third of the decision - another third of the problems is only visible once you live there a while, and the last third is the same problems you had before that you take with you.

sifar 2y ago

>> There is an insane wealth gap. Relative wealth gap in developing countries dwarfs that of the developed ones. Source: Personal observation.

Timon3 2y ago
Is there a reason to trust your anecdote instead of looking at data? I'm sure this topic has been researched.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- baq 2y ago
  Yeah it’s called the gini index. US isn’t great but isn’t anywhere near the worst. In absolute terms though just look at pictures of e.g. rural Russia va Moscow.
  - Timon3 2y ago
    Thank you for bringing up this data point! I'm sure we both agree that's a much better argument than "trust me" :)
    - sifar 2y ago
      I understand, however it was a disclaimer not a "trust me". One of the main reason such metrics are not as reflective of the reality is that for developing countries, the taxes are not reported accurately. A lot of wealth is officially unreported - and it is a massive amount. Such things are not captured by official statistics, by virtue of being unreported income, which leads to an incomplete or distorted picture of reality.
FuriouslyAdrift 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_wealth_inequality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_we... tl;dr as of 2021 Gini coefficents, Brazil is the worst and Japan is best large nation... (there's tons of nuance missing here, but that's the basics)

psunavy03 2y ago

The violent crime rate in the US is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. The only difference is that now every crime is getting blasted from the rooftops by the news media as propaganda to generate clicks on ads. There is a violent crime problem in specific neighborhoods of specific cities, largely tied to gangs and the drug trade. But there is zero empirical data to suggest that it is more of a nationwide problem than it was in the 1980s and 1990s. The majority of gun deaths in this country (60-80 percent jurisdiction-dependent) are people committing suicide, often middle-aged men. Beyond that, the average gun murder is a young man with a criminal record killing another young man with a criminal record using an illegally-possessed handgun.

returningfory2 2y ago
There's also the fact that way more Americans are killed by cars than in homicides. This is not to diminish the importance of tackling homicides. But the high level picture of "what is most wrong in America" is definitely skewed in weird ways that is independent of the underlying reality.
fuzztester 2y ago
>The violent crime rate in the US is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. The only difference is that now every crime is getting blasted from the rooftops by the news media as propaganda to generate clicks on ads. How about all the mass shootings that we read about, happening every few weeks or even more frequently, sometimes back-to-back, on average, in the US? That's not violent crime? Of course it is. >a fraction of what it was 30 years ago And statistics don't paint the full picture, not by a long chalk, unless all you are is a bean counter. What about the personal and family and friends' trauma of all the victims and their circles? We can dismiss that as negligible, right? /s Check these: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_th... There were so many that I got tired of scrolling. JFC.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]