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I would love a 10-15K BYD. I was told recently desiring a BYD is un-American when I can spend 3 times the price on a Tesla. No thanks! I’ll hold out for somethi
by latentcall 2y ago
I would love a 10-15K BYD. I was told recently desiring a BYD is un-American when I can spend 3 times the price on a Tesla. No thanks! I’ll hold out for something truly cheap. Cars in America are insanely priced.
- AnotherGoodName 2y agoFunny thing is that Musk himself said the “Shanghai built Tesla's are the best quality Tesla's” and he’s fully leaning into Chinese manufacturing. I suspect what will happen is that cheap Chinese imports will come into the USA but only for select manufacturers who benefit the current administration. So no cheap byd’s but possibly cheap Tesla’s.
- kjksf 2y agoTesla cars sold in US are the most American build cars. See https://www.carpro.com/blog/most-american-made-vehicle-the-tesla-model-y https://www.carpro.com/blog/most-american-made-vehicle-the-t... What it means that if you count what percentage of car parts are made in America, Tesla has higher percentage that other brands, even those you might consider "more" American, like GM or Ford. All Teslas sold in America are assembled in America (California or Texas). Ford Mustang, for example, is assembled in Mexico. As far as I know Tesla never sold Chinese built cars in US. They used Chinese manufacturing (CATL) and Korean batteries in some model, but also manufactured batteries in US (Nevada, with Panasonic) and are expanding battery production in US with 4680 (used in Cybertruck). Cheaper Teslas are coming to US but they'll be manufactured in US (Texas). Tesla told us that they'll start making a cheaper model sometime in 2025.
- AnotherGoodName 2y agoI’m saying that Chinese made teslas might be allowed in the USA in the near future. Musk himself has stated bluntly that USA made teslas are lower quality and more expensive so you can see the desire to shut down the US plants and bring in Chinese made Teslas and he clearly has some political sway now.
- jayd16 2y ago> Tesla told us that they'll start making a cheaper model sometime in 2025. Buddy, do I have a bridge to sell you...
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago> Tesla told us that they'll start making a cheaper model sometime in 2025. Next, you'll tell me that RoboTaxi is coming within 6 months. Roadster is now 4 years late and has no release date planned. FSD is how many years late, now? Tesla is the king of missed timelines and broken promises. I'd be surprised if they even actually had a desire to make a cheaper car. Their claims are just lies to boost the stock price. Margins on a base Model 3 are already incredibly slim.
- klooney 2y agoYou puff up the local market when you're giving a speech in that market.
- rootusrootus 2y agoProtecting local manufacturers from cheap offshore labor is rational, especially if the offshore products are being subsidized specifically to undermine incumbents and put them out of business. I get that individual consumers want the cheapest trinket they can find, but the gov't has to be more strategic. And every country does this, including the one that would be the source of these trinkets.
- newyankee 2y agoSubsidy cannot work beyond a certain scale. Sure they may have benefitted initially, but in the long run I presume they need some kind of profits to sustain. May be the lead in Chinese EV and battery industries is not purely technological, it is also the supply chain and scale developed over the years. All this talk assumes that USA or Western countries have always had a level playing field whereas companies like Boeing or Airbus are prime counter examples
- rootusrootus 2y ago> All this talk assumes that USA or Western countries have always had a level playing field whereas companies like Boeing or Airbus are prime counter examples As I said, every country does it. It is rational to protect your own manufacturing industry. China does it. We do it. European countries do it. Just because we protect our own industry does not mean we have to protect China's interests too. That's their problem.
- elashri 2y agoThe problem is that the US is complaining a lot about that when it is the other countries doing that. Even here, average commentator will call it a foul (whataboittism) if you point out that. You can't eat the cake and have it. Either you follow the fair trade requirements or don't complain about others not doing the same. If you say standards, then follow by lead and respect them. Also I do not think every country does that. There are too much pressure by the US, China and EU on these countries to prevent many from doing that.
- bloomingeek 2y agoAbsolutely! The biggest problem is the average American allows themselves to be duped and challenged by advertising. New tech in cars is great, but spending $40K and up is stupid. I've said it before: my $27K base model Ram truck will go from point A to point B just as well as a $70K(!) model. Is it just as shiny? No, but the money I didn't spend on all that shine won't be wasted on depreciation. My credit union recently sent me an email telling me I can be approved for up to $70K for an auto loan, this is insane! When we allow competitiveness or temptation to decide how much money we spend, we lose every time. The only way to get Tesla to offer that $25K car is to stop buying the more expensive ones.
- ComSubVie 2y agoAnd American prices are already insanely low. If I want to buy a RAM in Austria for $30k I get a used car with 150.000km. If I want a new one it's (much) over $100k.
- bloomingeek 2y agoWow, is that because of tariffs or shipping costs from the US?
- datavirtue 2y agoAll those options and appearance packages just become liabilities as the trucks age. None of it ages well.
- ndileas 2y agoI was nodding along with your post until you brought out your numbers (I agree fully with the broader point). For me, any car above 15k or so is very expensive - I've always bought used and drove them into the ground. I'd love an electric car but it's not in the cards for my family until the total cost of ownership gets down to 2-3k a year or so. This is something I've always found fascinating about materialism (I can only speak to the US). The messaging and feelings are incredibly similar whether your budget is 10k or 100k. Very easy to slide up the scale slowly and feel like you're still living small with a bulging budget, or to choose options that are beyond your means and so stunt financial growth.
- solardev 2y agoHalf of America doesn't want to support the incoming administration either, and Musk has decided to closely and personally align himself with it. I wonder if that will affect Tesla sales.
- dec0dedab0de 2y agoI kinda think the whole thing is just Elon tricking republicans into buying electric cars.
- solardev 2y agoMasterful move right there. Maybe he can trick them all into going to Mars next? They don't call it the Red Planet for nuthin.
- jjtheblunt 2y agothat's the first thing about politics that made me smile in months i think.
- larkost 2y ago[flagged]
- hkpack 2y ago> As evidence look at all of the quickly disproven posts on a wide range of topics that Elon has posted. He did no research at all before posting those things (despite a large following, and thus large responsibility). He "felt" that the post was good/right, so he went with it. Or, more likely, he knows exactly what he is doing.
- datavirtue 2y agoNah...
- scottyah 2y ago
- downrightmike 2y agoThe only difference between the vast majority of cars "Made in the USA" is the scant margin that allows manufacturers to use that mark. Most cars are made outside the USA. So, as far as I'm concerned, they are all basically un-American. That's beside from the point that Tesla is being run by a Nazi.
- torginus 2y agoUn-American or not, those 10k BYDs reflect Chinese supply chains, labor prices, and market subsidies and cars built to different regulations - turns out if they play the game like other manufacturers do, BYDs aren't actually that much cheaper to make.
- MetaWhirledPeas 2y agoLabor prices and subsidies might be "cheating" but why would we count supply chain against them?
- scottyah 2y agoBlame the pesky labor and safety laws.
- Zelphyr 2y agoI don't remember the source so, someone please correct me if I'm wrong but, I read that no EV battery can be made for less than $50K. So, either BYD is cutting some serious corners (possibly) or they are being heavily subsidized (probably). If either are true, I can see how that would be damaging to us.
- hedora 2y agoI’ve heard replacing an EV sadan’s battery is typically ~$10K (capacity matters of course). Also, fwiw, our home batteries (sold at profit, with lots of expensive other stuff and install labor) were about $20K, and the same capacity as our small car.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago> I don't remember the source so, someone please correct me if I'm wrong but, I read that no EV battery can be made for less than $50K. Absolute hogwash. The only way for this to be true is if you amortize the cost of R&D and factory building over a small number of batteries and include it in the manufacturing cost, and I think it's incredibly misleading to include the cost of R&D into the cost of a battery, simply for the fact that you can make wild claims by just including it. So...for an incumbent manufacturer that's putting very little effort into actually selling EVs, it might be true that it's costing them $50K per battery if you include the cost of setting up the manufacturing. But for someone like Tesla, who has literally sold millions of cars, even if you include that cost, it's closer to $10K.
- redwall_hp 2y agoI will never buy an American car. I remember my parents' multiple Dodges and Fords catastrophically failing before they switched to Toyota. US car companies have created the lasting idea that cars are dead at 100K miles, because those companies' cars absolutely were. Meanwhile, I bought my Honda at 148K and it's over 210K now and doing fine. Tesla seems to live up to the legendary Ford quality, with hilarious workmanship issues, Ford Pinto level "it'll trap you in a fire" design and frequent failures. Probably because they threw out the hard-learned lessons of a century of auto-making for novelty electronic gimmicks.
- mediaman 2y agoI believe it's worth pointing out that with your Toyota, you're still buying an American car. The vast majority of Toyota vehicles sold in America are made in US plants. Which is a good thing! It shows that those other quality issues are not related to US labor force, or some intrinsic American inability to make high quality goods.
- somerandomqaguy 2y agoWell, the big seller is Canadian. RAV4 comes out of Woodstock, Ontario.
- serjester 2y agoDesigns, manufactures and sells all in the US. For all intensive purpose, the Japanese exert a rather small influence on the day to day operations
- EasyMark 2y agointents* and purposes
- bluGill 2y agoUS cars have not been dead at 100k miles in decades, but people still accuse them of that. I have my Chrysler at 230k miles and still running fine. Note that many of the "American" cars with the bad reputation are Toyota's with just a different logo. Even though it is easy to check who made the car, the American logo makes for the reputation that it will die in 100k miles.
- skybrian 2y agoIf you want something truly cheap, buying a new car doesn’t make a lot of sense. Used cars are a better deal.
- EasyMark 2y agoNot always, the lower end Toyotas it’s a better deal per mile to buy new, if you are willing to shop around a little and get last year’s model.
- latentcall 2y agoUsed cars are not that much of a bargain. I’ve been looking and asking 20k for a car with 100k plus miles is insanity.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]