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While some night watches were public safety distributed among community members, they were often there to protect the goods of merchants rather than protect the

While some night watches were public safety distributed among community members, they were often there to protect the goods of merchants rather than protect the ordinary citizens of an area from petty crime. As merchants grew, and their goods became more valuable targets, the merchants would hire on guards, but saw the opportunity to turn the existing night watch systems in place to their favor, essentially insisting on distributing the cost of guarding their goods across the community. I'm not saying the night watches didn't evolve into police departments, I'm saying the night watches were co-opted prior to them becoming uniformed departments. And slave patrols led directly into being police departments in some parts of the US. I do not claim that's in the history of all depts, but across the south there are many cases of patrols becoming formalized into police departments.

adolph 2y ago
>>> That concept is from the mid 1800s. They evolved out of warehouse guards and slave patrols. >> This is not accurate. > I do not claim that's in the history of all depts, but across the south there are many cases of patrols becoming formalized into police departments. What percentage of current police departments were conversions from slave patrols? What is the source of this data?
- WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
  >> And slave patrols led directly into being police departments in some parts of the US. > What is the source of this data? https://duckduckgo.com/?hps=1&q=police+departments+were+conversions+from+slave+patrols&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?hps=1&q=police+departments+were+conv...
  - adolph 2y ago
    Ok, first link in results contradicts "slave patrols led directly into being police departments in some parts of the US": While it is true that slave patrols were a form of American law enforcement that existed alongside other forms of law enforcement, the claim that American policing “traces back” to, “started out” as, or “evolved directly from,” slave patrols, or that slave patrols “morphed directly into” policing, is false. This widespread pernicious myth falsely asserts a causal relationship between slave patrols and policing and intimates that modern policing carries on a legacy of gross injustice. There is no evidence for either postulate. https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/36/3/did-american-police-originate-from-slave-patrols https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/36/3/did-american-pol...
- bcdtttt 2y ago
  And did not mean to imply exclusively. Plenty of police departments don't have roots in slave patrols.
andrewla 2y ago
For the warehouse guards, to summarize, you're saying that night watchmen and city watchmen were de facto warehouse guards before the formation of professional police forces? That seems a far cry from "evolved out of warehouse guards". Police still put resources into protecting property, but this does not make them "warehouse guards" any more than resources put on petty crime make them "cutpurse chasers" unless you're just making rhetorical points. For the slave patrol point, I would appreciate a single example of this phenomenon. Is it the claim that there exists at least one professional police force that was created to replace a "slave patrol", which previously performed some subset of the civil duties of police officers? I have not been able to find an example; can you point me to one?
- sangnoir 2y ago
  > For the slave patrol point, I would appreciate a single example of this phenomenon Potter, Gary "The History of Policing in the United States"[1] references Platt, Tony, "Crime and Punishment in the United States: Immediate and Long-Term Reforms from a Marxist Perspective, Crime and Social Justice 18" 1. https://www.academia.edu/30504361/The_History_of_Policing_in_the_United_States https://www.academia.edu/30504361/The_History_of_Policing_in...
  - joemazerino 2y ago
    Marxist references are valid?
    - sangnoir 2y ago
      I suppose if you dismiss an article out of hand due to the ideology of the author without even seeing what historical facts they claim or their references, they might not be valuable to you. Should progressive academics declare all CATO papers invalid because they are ideologically misaligned with the institute?
  - adolph 2y ago
    Did you read Platt? Its a mistake to grant any assertion as valid, especially given what we now know about academic fraud. The Platt article is freely available and does not reference slavery in any way that I can see from searching (the bad OCR) and quickly reading through the paragraphs. Potter: The genesis of the modern police organization in the South is the “Slave Patrol” (Platt 1982). Potter: Platt, Tony, “Crime and Punishment in the United States: Immediate and Long-Term Reforms from a Marxist Perspective, Crime and Social Justice 18 (1982). "CRIME AND PUNISHMENT IN THE UNITED STATES: IMMEDIATE AND LONG-TERM REFORMS FROM A MARXIST PERSPECTIVE" Tony Platt Crime and Social Justice, No. 18, REMAKING JUSTICE (Winter 1982), pp. 38-45 (8 pages) 1. https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766165 https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766165
graemep 2y ago
Given the origin of modern police forces in the Met, the principles set down by Peel would indicate that the aim was to have a force that was backed by the public - "policing by consent". One of their predecessor organisations was the Bow Street Runners which was set up by magistrates with the aim of providing a less corrupt system than that of "thief takers" and a more professional one than parish constables.

adolph 2y ago

>>> That concept is from the mid 1800s. They evolved out of warehouse guards and slave patrols. >> This is not accurate. > I do not claim that's in the history of all depts, but across the south there are many cases of patrols becoming formalized into police departments. What percentage of current police departments were conversions from slave patrols? What is the source of this data?

WarOnPrivacy 2y ago
>> And slave patrols led directly into being police departments in some parts of the US. > What is the source of this data? https://duckduckgo.com/?hps=1&q=police+departments+were+conversions+from+slave+patrols&ia=web https://duckduckgo.com/?hps=1&q=police+departments+were+conv...
- adolph 2y ago
  Ok, first link in results contradicts "slave patrols led directly into being police departments in some parts of the US": While it is true that slave patrols were a form of American law enforcement that existed alongside other forms of law enforcement, the claim that American policing “traces back” to, “started out” as, or “evolved directly from,” slave patrols, or that slave patrols “morphed directly into” policing, is false. This widespread pernicious myth falsely asserts a causal relationship between slave patrols and policing and intimates that modern policing carries on a legacy of gross injustice. There is no evidence for either postulate. https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/36/3/did-american-police-originate-from-slave-patrols https://www.nas.org/academic-questions/36/3/did-american-pol...
bcdtttt 2y ago
And did not mean to imply exclusively. Plenty of police departments don't have roots in slave patrols.

andrewla 2y ago

For the warehouse guards, to summarize, you're saying that night watchmen and city watchmen were de facto warehouse guards before the formation of professional police forces? That seems a far cry from "evolved out of warehouse guards". Police still put resources into protecting property, but this does not make them "warehouse guards" any more than resources put on petty crime make them "cutpurse chasers" unless you're just making rhetorical points. For the slave patrol point, I would appreciate a single example of this phenomenon. Is it the claim that there exists at least one professional police force that was created to replace a "slave patrol", which previously performed some subset of the civil duties of police officers? I have not been able to find an example; can you point me to one?

sangnoir 2y ago
> For the slave patrol point, I would appreciate a single example of this phenomenon Potter, Gary "The History of Policing in the United States"[1] references Platt, Tony, "Crime and Punishment in the United States: Immediate and Long-Term Reforms from a Marxist Perspective, Crime and Social Justice 18" 1. https://www.academia.edu/30504361/The_History_of_Policing_in_the_United_States https://www.academia.edu/30504361/The_History_of_Policing_in...
- joemazerino 2y ago
  Marxist references are valid?
  - sangnoir 2y ago
    I suppose if you dismiss an article out of hand due to the ideology of the author without even seeing what historical facts they claim or their references, they might not be valuable to you. Should progressive academics declare all CATO papers invalid because they are ideologically misaligned with the institute?
- adolph 2y ago
  Did you read Platt? Its a mistake to grant any assertion as valid, especially given what we now know about academic fraud. The Platt article is freely available and does not reference slavery in any way that I can see from searching (the bad OCR) and quickly reading through the paragraphs. Potter: The genesis of the modern police organization in the South is the “Slave Patrol” (Platt 1982). Potter: Platt, Tony, “Crime and Punishment in the United States: Immediate and Long-Term Reforms from a Marxist Perspective, Crime and Social Justice 18 (1982). "CRIME AND PUNISHMENT IN THE UNITED STATES: IMMEDIATE AND LONG-TERM REFORMS FROM A MARXIST PERSPECTIVE" Tony Platt Crime and Social Justice, No. 18, REMAKING JUSTICE (Winter 1982), pp. 38-45 (8 pages) 1. https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766165 https://www.jstor.org/stable/29766165

graemep 2y ago

Given the origin of modern police forces in the Met, the principles set down by Peel would indicate that the aim was to have a force that was backed by the public - "policing by consent". One of their predecessor organisations was the Bow Street Runners which was set up by magistrates with the aim of providing a less corrupt system than that of "thief takers" and a more professional one than parish constables.