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It seems that the obvious solution could be Starlink-style meshes. Can anybody comment on how fragile the Starlink protocol would be during a war? If its line-

It seems that the obvious solution could be Starlink-style meshes. Can anybody comment on how fragile the Starlink protocol would be during a war? If its line-of-sight, presumably it would be hard to jam?

mempko 2y ago
Did Russia make a threat to Elon Musk at some point that it would take down Starlink satellites?
- m4rtink 2y ago
  Sure, let them try down 1700+ satellites, with new being put up multiple times a week by the dozens. Cant't even cause a proper Kessler Syndrome due to the low orbit. Getting more and more Footfall vibes these days with Spacex already having a full orbital dominance. ;-)
andrelaszlo 2y ago
The Swedish part of AMPRNet [0] has some ambitions to be a fallback in case of a crisis[1]. It seems cheaper and easier (a bit of an understatement) to deploy and repair, in case it gets attacked. 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet 1: https://amprnet.se/images/Kriskommunikation-2014-01-27.pdf https://amprnet.se/images/Kriskommunikation-2014-01-27.pdf
aredox 2y ago
Send some sharpnel on the same orbital altitude as Starlink and the whole constellation disappears.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  True, if by "some" you mean a few thousand rocket launches worth of shrapnel.
  - nixass 2y ago
    few dozen crashed satellites quickly become shrapnel on their own, spreading in all directions. not at "shrapnel speed" but nevertheless..
    - bryanlarsen 2y ago
      At Starlink altitude there is still operationally significant volumes of air. So much so that Starlinks need to altitude raise regularly. Starlink shrapnel would drop below Starlink orbit almost immediately, and completely deorbit in a month or so.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  It's Starlink. It would take an sms from Putin at most for Musk to turn it off.
  - inemesitaffia 2y ago
    Oh really
jahnu 2y ago
Ignoring everything else, C-Lion1 has a bandwidth if 144 Tbit/sec How much can a constellation offer say between many points in both countries? Seems unlikely it could get close but I would like to know. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Lion1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Lion1
verdverm 2y ago
Nuclear detonation(s) in LEO would likely cause significant harm
wood_spirit 2y ago
Elon Musk is not someone Europe feels it can rely on in a crisis when Russia attacks
- Gud 2y ago
  Elon Musk is probably the private individual who has done most for Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrain...
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
looperhacks 2y ago
Russia already demonstrated that they are able to take down satellites [1] and that they can interfere with Starlink [2]> 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/world/europe/russia-antisatellite-missile-test.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/world/europe/russia-antis... 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/24/technology/ukraine-russia-starlink.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/24/technology/ukraine-russia...

mempko 2y ago

Did Russia make a threat to Elon Musk at some point that it would take down Starlink satellites?

m4rtink 2y ago
Sure, let them try down 1700+ satellites, with new being put up multiple times a week by the dozens. Cant't even cause a proper Kessler Syndrome due to the low orbit. Getting more and more Footfall vibes these days with Spacex already having a full orbital dominance. ;-)

andrelaszlo 2y ago

The Swedish part of AMPRNet [0] has some ambitions to be a fallback in case of a crisis[1]. It seems cheaper and easier (a bit of an understatement) to deploy and repair, in case it gets attacked. 0: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMPRNet 1: https://amprnet.se/images/Kriskommunikation-2014-01-27.pdf https://amprnet.se/images/Kriskommunikation-2014-01-27.pdf

aredox 2y ago

Send some sharpnel on the same orbital altitude as Starlink and the whole constellation disappears.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
True, if by "some" you mean a few thousand rocket launches worth of shrapnel.
- nixass 2y ago
  few dozen crashed satellites quickly become shrapnel on their own, spreading in all directions. not at "shrapnel speed" but nevertheless..
  - bryanlarsen 2y ago
    At Starlink altitude there is still operationally significant volumes of air. So much so that Starlinks need to altitude raise regularly. Starlink shrapnel would drop below Starlink orbit almost immediately, and completely deorbit in a month or so.
TiredOfLife 2y ago
It's Starlink. It would take an sms from Putin at most for Musk to turn it off.
- inemesitaffia 2y ago
  Oh really

jahnu 2y ago

Ignoring everything else, C-Lion1 has a bandwidth if 144 Tbit/sec How much can a constellation offer say between many points in both countries? Seems unlikely it could get close but I would like to know. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Lion1 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-Lion1

verdverm 2y ago

Nuclear detonation(s) in LEO would likely cause significant harm

wood_spirit 2y ago

Elon Musk is not someone Europe feels it can rely on in a crisis when Russia attacks

Gud 2y ago
Elon Musk is probably the private individual who has done most for Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrain...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

looperhacks 2y ago

Russia already demonstrated that they are able to take down satellites [1] and that they can interfere with Starlink [2]> 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/world/europe/russia-antisatellite-missile-test.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/16/world/europe/russia-antis... 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/24/technology/ukraine-russia-starlink.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/24/technology/ukraine-russia...