3 ms·

> As big as Google, Facebook, or Amazon are, they would struggle under the load of trying to create a system for determining who is "truly" blind... and that's

> As big as Google, Facebook, or Amazon are, they would struggle under the load of trying to create a system for determining who is "truly" blind... and that's still true if we ignore questions like exactly what "blind" is anyhow. In several countries, the government issues certificates of blindness [1] which grant access to certain extra types of support. We don't want severely vision-impaired people being forced to drive, after all! So there are legal standards for what exactly blind is, and certificates. The question is whether tech companies are inclined to hire enough people to wrangle the paperwork involved in checking such certificates, worldwide. [1] https://www.mass.gov/info-details/benefits-for-people-who-are-legally-blind https://www.mass.gov/info-details/benefits-for-people-who-ar...

inetknght 2y ago
> So there are legal standards for what exactly blind is, and certificates. In the USA, people are not yet required to provide identification when signing up for "free" services. There are real concerns around privacy. A certification of blindness is exactly one of those privacy concerns, being a medical issue. You think it would be a good idea to give that private information to the criminal organizations of big tech?
- Scarblac 2y ago
  These are already users that want to let the company know that they are blind in order to qualify for special treatment. In that case showing the certificate doesn't seem to be much of an extra privacy issue to me.
  - RobMurray 2y ago
    Accessibility isn't special treatment! As I said before I would never provide proof of identity to simply access a website.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      > Accessibility isn't special treatment! Perhaps not in all cases, but it can be. This article is literally about special treatment for accessibility purposes. It's of course debatable if this is how things should be, but that's another discussion.
  - soraminazuki 2y ago
    Nah, it's the companies that's demanding proof over what's basically sane treatment rather than users wanting to surrender their medical info.
- webspinner 2y ago
  I would have a privacy concern with it, and then your going to force everyone to do verification. Age verification isn't even passed here in the US, although a lot of companies do it. They wanted to make it law over the last couple years.
jerf 2y ago
If "having a government identity" was a solution to the identity problem, it would be solved. It is not solved. That is at most the beginning of a solution to the problem. And in practice, it is little more than the beginning of the problem, as the government's definition of blindness is very unlikely to be a precise match to "has problems completing our visual CAPTCHA", and if multiple governments have standards there is no chance they will match. Do not underestimate the resilience and resourcefulness of scammers. They aren't just some individuals here and there who decide one day that they could make a couple extra bucks spamming people, and just sort of start sending out whatever scam strikes their fancy. They're international businesses with engineering teams, and a constant feed of low-level operatives who can scam governments about how blind they are if the governments leave any hole in their system. They're thousands of people dedicating their full human-level intelligence to the task of defeating your system and extracting the value from it. They are not as easy to defeat as "let's just put the obvious certification in place", for the same reason that the CAPTCHA problem isn't solved with "Let's just issue everyone official identities".
- michaelt 2y ago
  > They're international businesses with engineering teams, and a constant feed of low-level operatives who can scam governments about how blind they are if the governments leave any hole in their system. I don't know about your country, but in my country the government is pretty keen on avoiding abuses of the benefits system. After all, a blind person gets tax breaks and cash benefits totalling about $5000/year. So the existing system is used to dealing with financially motivated adversaries. I doubt the additional financial motivation of being able to bypass hCaptcha would mean much, in comparison.
  - jokethrowaway 2y ago
    I'm sure some rural country somewhere would start selling certificates en masse the moment this is implemented.
gruez 2y ago
This is a moot point anyways because the Americans with Disabilities act bans businesses from asking people about their specific disabilities. Asking for proof of blindness will almost certainly be in contravention of that.

inetknght 2y ago

> So there are legal standards for what exactly blind is, and certificates. In the USA, people are not yet required to provide identification when signing up for "free" services. There are real concerns around privacy. A certification of blindness is exactly one of those privacy concerns, being a medical issue. You think it would be a good idea to give that private information to the criminal organizations of big tech?

Scarblac 2y ago
These are already users that want to let the company know that they are blind in order to qualify for special treatment. In that case showing the certificate doesn't seem to be much of an extra privacy issue to me.
- RobMurray 2y ago
  Accessibility isn't special treatment! As I said before I would never provide proof of identity to simply access a website.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    > Accessibility isn't special treatment! Perhaps not in all cases, but it can be. This article is literally about special treatment for accessibility purposes. It's of course debatable if this is how things should be, but that's another discussion.
- soraminazuki 2y ago
  Nah, it's the companies that's demanding proof over what's basically sane treatment rather than users wanting to surrender their medical info.
webspinner 2y ago
I would have a privacy concern with it, and then your going to force everyone to do verification. Age verification isn't even passed here in the US, although a lot of companies do it. They wanted to make it law over the last couple years.

jerf 2y ago

If "having a government identity" was a solution to the identity problem, it would be solved. It is not solved. That is at most the beginning of a solution to the problem. And in practice, it is little more than the beginning of the problem, as the government's definition of blindness is very unlikely to be a precise match to "has problems completing our visual CAPTCHA", and if multiple governments have standards there is no chance they will match. Do not underestimate the resilience and resourcefulness of scammers. They aren't just some individuals here and there who decide one day that they could make a couple extra bucks spamming people, and just sort of start sending out whatever scam strikes their fancy. They're international businesses with engineering teams, and a constant feed of low-level operatives who can scam governments about how blind they are if the governments leave any hole in their system. They're thousands of people dedicating their full human-level intelligence to the task of defeating your system and extracting the value from it. They are not as easy to defeat as "let's just put the obvious certification in place", for the same reason that the CAPTCHA problem isn't solved with "Let's just issue everyone official identities".

michaelt 2y ago
> They're international businesses with engineering teams, and a constant feed of low-level operatives who can scam governments about how blind they are if the governments leave any hole in their system. I don't know about your country, but in my country the government is pretty keen on avoiding abuses of the benefits system. After all, a blind person gets tax breaks and cash benefits totalling about $5000/year. So the existing system is used to dealing with financially motivated adversaries. I doubt the additional financial motivation of being able to bypass hCaptcha would mean much, in comparison.
- jokethrowaway 2y ago
  I'm sure some rural country somewhere would start selling certificates en masse the moment this is implemented.

gruez 2y ago

This is a moot point anyways because the Americans with Disabilities act bans businesses from asking people about their specific disabilities. Asking for proof of blindness will almost certainly be in contravention of that.