4 ms·

Tried getting an appointment in Denmark. “We don’t take any new patients”. A familiar story when trying to reach many specialists in European countries (Germany

by f6v 2y ago

Tried getting an appointment in Denmark. “We don’t take any new patients”. A familiar story when trying to reach many specialists in European countries (Germany, Belgium). Except I doubt they’re getting 500k.

shdh 2y ago
Guessing you also need a referral to see a specialist in Denmark? In USA, with PPO insurance, you can see specialists without a referral. Direct specialist appointments without seeing your primary doctor for a referral.
- paulddraper 2y ago
  No, it's not a matter of referral. It's a matter of "current patients have filled the schedule indefinitely."
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    That's pretty crazy considering Denmark is touted as a socialist utopia where the taxes are high but it's worth it because the government supposedly takes care of everything for you. I'd expect them to have figured out the doctors' shortage but this problem seems endemic in every country.
    - nextos 2y ago
      In EU, there is a severe shortage of MDs. Part of the problem is that the number of students is not sufficient to satisfy MD demand. In some countries, this is a deliberate policy imposed by MD lobbies, who act like a cartel. In other countries, the job is simply not attractive due to relatively low salaries and high workload. So students choose other degrees, or they immigrate after graduation. Furthermore, an aged population and lack of adequate policy planning does not help.
      - triceratops 2y ago
        Sounds like it's a problem in most of the developed world.
        getwiththeprog 2y ago
        It sounds like it, but no evidence has been provided.
    - paulddraper 2y ago
      A. This is exactly what is to be expected. If high-skill jobs are compensated (relatively) less, workers are less incentivized to pursue those jobs, or they move to other markets. B. Capitalist countries like the U.S. are not completely immune to his phenomenon either.
      - shdh 2y ago
        Are doctors in USA emigrating to other countries? Or do you mean across state lines?
        paulddraper 2y ago
        Sorry, I mean that USA has doctor (particularly specialists) shortages as well.
      - qgin 2y ago
        This is the thing, even in the US with salaries 2/3/4x those in Europe, people in much of the country can get appointments for the better part of a year.
mcfist 2y ago
https://www.sundhed.dk/borger/guides/find-behandler/ https://www.sundhed.dk/borger/guides/find-behandler/ tells you waiting times at specialist doctors
soco 2y ago
At least in Switzerland it's like this: if you call directly the dermatologist (or just any medical specialist), they offer you a slot in 6 months. If you go over your house doctor (whatever the term is in your country) you get it in 1-2 weeks. If you are already known patient to said dermatologist, maybe even earlier. Thus: how about you try your house doctor?
jjice 2y ago
Anecdotal, but I'm in the North East US and I called, and I'm not joking, nine primary care offices. Eight of them said they couldn't take anymore patients, and one said I could get an appointment six months later. I hadn't needed to go to a primary care doctor in my adult life, but it was mind blowing that this was the case. Many friends of mine have had the same experience.
- cg5280 2y ago
  Had the same thing in the Midwest about 8 months ago. Had to call a half dozen offices before one would take me and appointments had to be scheduled long in advance. I had not been to the doctor as an adult either and was quickly surprised by how frustrating healthcare is.
  - zzbzq 2y ago
    Same, had to call around a lot to find primary care, and was being given multi-month waitlist estimates for seeing an ENT specialist. I've had more luck recently as I was able to get into see an ENT in less than 30 days. It's also crazy how much everyone tries to upsell you. It' hard to tell what tests or procedures I really need.
  - nerdponx 2y ago
    This is new since Covid era. You used to be able to get an appointment for a physical just a few weeks out, and it was easy to find a new doctor if you needed to.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
      It regionally-dependent though. On average, if we need to see a doctor, we can get an appointment in a day or two. For a routine physical, it might be two weeks, three at most.
  - Projectiboga 2y ago
    This has been developing for a very long time. The two major medical school systems, MDs and DOs have kept supply of medical school graduates below the demand. This has kept the market rate for fees up but has created market inefficiencies. There is an under supply of general practice doctors. And it will be hard to reverse as the internships and residencies are usually in hospitals and large medical centers and there is little room to expand the incoming DR supply.
animal531 2y ago
I suppose that's why medical tourism has become a thing. For a few euros you could fly out here to South Africa or other places in the world and get any first world grade medical assistance immediately (as long as you can pay, of course).
xela79 2y ago
in case of Belgium https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/dermatologist/belgium https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/dermatologist/belgiu... > The average dermatologist gross salary in Belgium is 215.909 € or an equivalent hourly rate of 104 €. In addition, they earn an average bonus of 13.041 €. Salary estimates based on salary survey data collected directly from employers and anonymous employees in Belgium. An entry level dermatologist (1-3 years of experience) earns an average salary of 143.218 €. On the other end, a senior level dermatologist (8+ years of experience) earns an average salary of 286.875 €. that is... out of the box, a very very nice salary to start your career with. OMG. Top IT jobs in Belgium are at 130k or so (none management)

by f6v 2y ago

shdh 2y ago

Guessing you also need a referral to see a specialist in Denmark? In USA, with PPO insurance, you can see specialists without a referral. Direct specialist appointments without seeing your primary doctor for a referral.

paulddraper 2y ago
No, it's not a matter of referral. It's a matter of "current patients have filled the schedule indefinitely."
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  That's pretty crazy considering Denmark is touted as a socialist utopia where the taxes are high but it's worth it because the government supposedly takes care of everything for you. I'd expect them to have figured out the doctors' shortage but this problem seems endemic in every country.
  - nextos 2y ago
    In EU, there is a severe shortage of MDs. Part of the problem is that the number of students is not sufficient to satisfy MD demand. In some countries, this is a deliberate policy imposed by MD lobbies, who act like a cartel. In other countries, the job is simply not attractive due to relatively low salaries and high workload. So students choose other degrees, or they immigrate after graduation. Furthermore, an aged population and lack of adequate policy planning does not help.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      Sounds like it's a problem in most of the developed world.
      - getwiththeprog 2y ago
        It sounds like it, but no evidence has been provided.
  - paulddraper 2y ago
    A. This is exactly what is to be expected. If high-skill jobs are compensated (relatively) less, workers are less incentivized to pursue those jobs, or they move to other markets. B. Capitalist countries like the U.S. are not completely immune to his phenomenon either.
    - shdh 2y ago
      Are doctors in USA emigrating to other countries? Or do you mean across state lines?
      - paulddraper 2y ago
        Sorry, I mean that USA has doctor (particularly specialists) shortages as well.
    - qgin 2y ago
      This is the thing, even in the US with salaries 2/3/4x those in Europe, people in much of the country can get appointments for the better part of a year.

mcfist 2y ago

https://www.sundhed.dk/borger/guides/find-behandler/ https://www.sundhed.dk/borger/guides/find-behandler/ tells you waiting times at specialist doctors

soco 2y ago

At least in Switzerland it's like this: if you call directly the dermatologist (or just any medical specialist), they offer you a slot in 6 months. If you go over your house doctor (whatever the term is in your country) you get it in 1-2 weeks. If you are already known patient to said dermatologist, maybe even earlier. Thus: how about you try your house doctor?

jjice 2y ago

Anecdotal, but I'm in the North East US and I called, and I'm not joking, nine primary care offices. Eight of them said they couldn't take anymore patients, and one said I could get an appointment six months later. I hadn't needed to go to a primary care doctor in my adult life, but it was mind blowing that this was the case. Many friends of mine have had the same experience.

cg5280 2y ago
Had the same thing in the Midwest about 8 months ago. Had to call a half dozen offices before one would take me and appointments had to be scheduled long in advance. I had not been to the doctor as an adult either and was quickly surprised by how frustrating healthcare is.
- zzbzq 2y ago
  Same, had to call around a lot to find primary care, and was being given multi-month waitlist estimates for seeing an ENT specialist. I've had more luck recently as I was able to get into see an ENT in less than 30 days. It's also crazy how much everyone tries to upsell you. It' hard to tell what tests or procedures I really need.
- nerdponx 2y ago
  This is new since Covid era. You used to be able to get an appointment for a physical just a few weeks out, and it was easy to find a new doctor if you needed to.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
    It regionally-dependent though. On average, if we need to see a doctor, we can get an appointment in a day or two. For a routine physical, it might be two weeks, three at most.
- Projectiboga 2y ago
  This has been developing for a very long time. The two major medical school systems, MDs and DOs have kept supply of medical school graduates below the demand. This has kept the market rate for fees up but has created market inefficiencies. There is an under supply of general practice doctors. And it will be hard to reverse as the internships and residencies are usually in hospitals and large medical centers and there is little room to expand the incoming DR supply.

animal531 2y ago

I suppose that's why medical tourism has become a thing. For a few euros you could fly out here to South Africa or other places in the world and get any first world grade medical assistance immediately (as long as you can pay, of course).

xela79 2y ago

in case of Belgium https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/dermatologist/belgium https://www.salaryexpert.com/salary/job/dermatologist/belgiu... > The average dermatologist gross salary in Belgium is 215.909 € or an equivalent hourly rate of 104 €. In addition, they earn an average bonus of 13.041 €. Salary estimates based on salary survey data collected directly from employers and anonymous employees in Belgium. An entry level dermatologist (1-3 years of experience) earns an average salary of 143.218 €. On the other end, a senior level dermatologist (8+ years of experience) earns an average salary of 286.875 €. that is... out of the box, a very very nice salary to start your career with. OMG. Top IT jobs in Belgium are at 130k or so (none management)