4 ms·

I can spell it out, if it helps. In a country with exorbitant healthcare costs, it means that leaving your job means that you (and often your family) don't get

I can spell it out, if it helps. In a country with exorbitant healthcare costs, it means that leaving your job means that you (and often your family) don't get healthcare.

teaearlgraycold 2y ago
COBRA?
- rqtwteye 2y ago
  That’s super expensive. ACA is often better but that may change now with the republicans having control of congress.
  - vkou 2y ago
    > That’s super expensive COBRA costs you exactly how much you + your employer were paying for that insurance. It's expensive because your employer's share of insurance was a significant part of your compensation (And because US healthcare costs are pants-on-head insane.) I'll point out that it's generally quite expensive to, like, stop getting paid. Practically, post-ACA, health insurance in the US is about as tied to employment as having a roof over your head and food on your table is. If you don't have employment, or money, you're going to be in trouble - but that's the case with everything you need to live, not just healthcare.
    - ponow 2y ago
      Our regulations (including the medical guild) and legal structure (including crazy malpractice payouts for unintentional mistakes) forces everything to be more expensive than necessary. We are very far from a free market, even if we stopped with the untaxed benefits.
      - rqtwteye 2y ago
        US healthcare is a market but not for patients. Insurance, employers and hospitals negotiate a lot. But people who get employer based insurance just have to accept what they are given. Pretty crazy.
        naveen99 2y ago
        Don’t most large employers essentially self insure? They only outsource the administration to insurance companies, not the float.
        rqtwteye 2y ago
        Sure. The point is that the employer does all the selecting of options and the patient/employer has to take what the employer chose. No market for the patient.
      - BlueTemplar 2y ago
        Aren't healthcare costs in line with the very high US income levels (with people spending a high fraction of their income in it, because they can afford to), and the main issue is inequality (including lack of real insurance)?
      - consteval 2y ago
        We left the free market of healthcare behind because it was awful for consumers. People who were disabled or otherwise had chronic conditions were, more or less, completely screwed. Not to mention these regulations are very much necessary. We want educated and highly certified doctors cutting you up.
- red-iron-pine 2y ago
  COBRA is an expensive joke
kirkules 2y ago
I'm thinking you misinterpreted the comment you responded to? I read it as saying that you don't necessarily have to have employment linked healthcare just because you have at-will employment. The "inexplicably" being a commentary on the wisdom/sanity/compassion of linking healthcare to employment, rather than a claim that the parent comment had made an inexplicable leap of logic
- specproc 2y ago
  I very much read it as I responded, and re-reading, still interpret it as such.
  - jayd16 2y ago
    Kirkules is correct.
    - specproc 2y ago
      My apologies, I stand corrected.
- happymellon 2y ago
  But the discussion wasn't about "generic at-will" employment. It started as "American at-will" employment. > > I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers It may seem like you can just walk away from a job but realistically most people can't.
  - Amezarak 2y ago
    "Most people" are not dependent on health insurance for their average needs, except in the long-term or unexpectedly. Then of course, being unemployed, you have the option of COBRA (you probably don't want that though), and if it does not make you immediately eligible for Medicaid in your state (40 of 50 have Medicaid expansion), it would make you eligible for the ACA subsidized plans. NB: more than one-third of employer-sponsored plans are HDHPs, meaning employees have deductibles in the thousands of dollars anyway. It's certainly a disruption, and it's one more thing to consider, but the idea that "most Americans" are one job loss away from being killed by lack of health care is not remotely true - most people don't need health care that regularly, unemployed people have insurance options, and at a last resort, for the most part, you can accrue unlimited medical debt in most places with few real-world consequences.

I can spell it out, if it helps. In a country with exorbitant healthcare costs, it means that leaving your job means that you (and often your family) don't get healthcare.

teaearlgraycold 2y ago

COBRA?

rqtwteye 2y ago
That’s super expensive. ACA is often better but that may change now with the republicans having control of congress.
- vkou 2y ago
  > That’s super expensive COBRA costs you exactly how much you + your employer were paying for that insurance. It's expensive because your employer's share of insurance was a significant part of your compensation (And because US healthcare costs are pants-on-head insane.) I'll point out that it's generally quite expensive to, like, stop getting paid. Practically, post-ACA, health insurance in the US is about as tied to employment as having a roof over your head and food on your table is. If you don't have employment, or money, you're going to be in trouble - but that's the case with everything you need to live, not just healthcare.
  - ponow 2y ago
    Our regulations (including the medical guild) and legal structure (including crazy malpractice payouts for unintentional mistakes) forces everything to be more expensive than necessary. We are very far from a free market, even if we stopped with the untaxed benefits.
    - rqtwteye 2y ago
      US healthcare is a market but not for patients. Insurance, employers and hospitals negotiate a lot. But people who get employer based insurance just have to accept what they are given. Pretty crazy.
      - naveen99 2y ago
        Don’t most large employers essentially self insure? They only outsource the administration to insurance companies, not the float.
        rqtwteye 2y ago
        Sure. The point is that the employer does all the selecting of options and the patient/employer has to take what the employer chose. No market for the patient.
    - BlueTemplar 2y ago
      Aren't healthcare costs in line with the very high US income levels (with people spending a high fraction of their income in it, because they can afford to), and the main issue is inequality (including lack of real insurance)?
    - consteval 2y ago
      We left the free market of healthcare behind because it was awful for consumers. People who were disabled or otherwise had chronic conditions were, more or less, completely screwed. Not to mention these regulations are very much necessary. We want educated and highly certified doctors cutting you up.
red-iron-pine 2y ago
COBRA is an expensive joke

kirkules 2y ago

I'm thinking you misinterpreted the comment you responded to? I read it as saying that you don't necessarily have to have employment linked healthcare just because you have at-will employment. The "inexplicably" being a commentary on the wisdom/sanity/compassion of linking healthcare to employment, rather than a claim that the parent comment had made an inexplicable leap of logic

specproc 2y ago
I very much read it as I responded, and re-reading, still interpret it as such.
- jayd16 2y ago
  Kirkules is correct.
  - specproc 2y ago
    My apologies, I stand corrected.
happymellon 2y ago
But the discussion wasn't about "generic at-will" employment. It started as "American at-will" employment. > > I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers It may seem like you can just walk away from a job but realistically most people can't.
- Amezarak 2y ago
  "Most people" are not dependent on health insurance for their average needs, except in the long-term or unexpectedly. Then of course, being unemployed, you have the option of COBRA (you probably don't want that though), and if it does not make you immediately eligible for Medicaid in your state (40 of 50 have Medicaid expansion), it would make you eligible for the ACA subsidized plans. NB: more than one-third of employer-sponsored plans are HDHPs, meaning employees have deductibles in the thousands of dollars anyway. It's certainly a disruption, and it's one more thing to consider, but the idea that "most Americans" are one job loss away from being killed by lack of health care is not remotely true - most people don't need health care that regularly, unemployed people have insurance options, and at a last resort, for the most part, you can accrue unlimited medical debt in most places with few real-world consequences.