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this is mostly fantastical nonsense. I go home at 6pm everyday. go outside at 6pm and you will see businesspeople everywhere also on the commute home. also it
by Daz1 2y ago
this is mostly fantastical nonsense. I go home at 6pm everyday. go outside at 6pm and you will see businesspeople everywhere also on the commute home.
also it is nearly impossible to fire anyone in Japan for anything
- goykasi 2y agoThat is my experience too. In my neighborhood, by 8pm, the streets are crawling with drunk salarymen (and women) stumbling out of izakayas on their way to a snack and/or karaoke -- 5 days per week. They clearly werent working overtime with how often I see them.
- saagarjha 2y agoSo they start work at 12?
- goykasi 2y agoI would guess they start around 8 or 9 in the morning.
- saagarjha 2y agoSo they’re working 12 hour days 5 days a week? That sounds like overtime to me.
- goykasi 2y agoNot sure why youre being a contrarian. It seems like you didnt bother to understand my post. But yah, start work at 8-9, knock off at 6 to start drinking heavily at the local izakaya, hammered by 8 or 9 and stumbling towards the snack until last train (or later if the company pays for cabs). I see the same thing everyday.
- saagarjha 2y agoThat’s still 9-10 hours a day. The typical workweek here is 40 hours.
- goykasi 2y agoWell your "here" is clearly not Japan. Your confidence about inexperience is weird though.
- saagarjha 2y agoWhere I'm from people call doing 10 hours a day and then being socially pressured into going to the bar with your boss afterwards to be overwork. You are welcome to call it whatever you want but going "yeah we do it that way here" doesn't make it any better. And, just to head off the usual response, what we do here also has its own issues. But I definitely will not be going "oh I saw a guy on the train at 3 PM clearly he is slacking at work".
- bouncycastle 2y agothe nomikai is part of the work, where the social status is being reinforced (pouring drinks while deeply bowing to the boss, getting forced to drink, the speeches, the clapping, etc)
- goykasi 2y agoIm not disputing the fact that nomikai exists. Ive been to my share. I was simply agreeing with the OP that it is more likely that most Japanese people arent working insane amounts of overtime and black companies arent in the majority. I provided a personal anecdote to reinforce that. Most people are more than likely getting off at regular hours and going home or out for dinner and drinks (whether you consider that work or not -- they arent being paid). Otherwise the bars and trains wouldnt be packed full of people at 6pm and happy hour wouldnt exist.
- rendall 2y agoYou might be right that black companies do not exist and that the article is fantastical nonsense. But you seem to be making the argument it does not happen to me nor anyone I see therefore they do not exist. Isn't that not really a logical argument against their existence, but argument by personal incredulity? By definition, you would be unlikely to see or know these workers.
- lyall 2y agoBlack companies certainly still exist and still mistreat their employees—I know quite a few people that work a lot of overtime with no extra pay, experience パワハラ, are the longest tenured employee around after just one year because of the massive turnover... Just because some people (you, the other people you mention) don't experience this doesn't mean nobody else does.
- jesterson 2y ago> I go home at 6pm everyday. go outside at 6pm and you will see businesspeople everywhere also on the commute home. Just because you see something doesn't make it absolute truth. Try go home at 11PM and you will see plenty of salaryman in trains sleeping on each other.
- goykasi 2y agoThe same could be said about going home at 6pm (except for the sleeping). Take the Oedo line out of Shinjuku or Roppongi between 6 and 8pm and tell me everyone is still at work.
- throwaway562if1 2y ago"Not everyone works at black companies" and "nobody works at black companies" are very different statements. People going home at 6 is evidence for the former, not the latter.
- jesterson 2y agoit's amazing how some people fail at basic logic trying to justify own biases, innit?