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Of course they will, it becomes a cost of doing business and it hits everyone equally. People also love to talk about raising taxes on business, but that still

Of course they will, it becomes a cost of doing business and it hits everyone equally. People also love to talk about raising taxes on business, but that still gets passed on through. The difference between a tariff and a tax is that a tariff can make the business rethink where it's sourcing is goods from and possibly change, the tax is just the tax.

jquery 2y ago
Taxes on businesses can be sidestepped the same way tariffs can be sidestepped. Tariffs are taxes.
- elmerfud 2y ago
  They are a form of tax, but where is applied is different, which is why it gets its own term.
  - jquery 2y ago
    Sure, but the fact "tax" isn't part of the term, as opposed to "sales tax" or "property tax" or "income tax" I think its use during the campaign mislead the American people. I don't think most people voted for 20% across the board higher taxes on goods and services.
    - elmerfud 2y ago
      I think you're framing this in an "I don't like this candidate" way rather than the electorate en masse is generally pretty ignorant. Each party always talks in terms that will largely be poorly understood by most. The idea of taxing businesses because they don't pay enough or taxing the "rich" because they don't pay enough is simply another way of passing that tax down to those who are consuming these services. You don't raise Walmart's corporate tax rate without Walmart raising prices and affecting everyone who shops there. At least with the tariff there is options.
- AnthonyMouse 2y ago
  > Tariffs are taxes. But that's the point. They generate revenue for the government, allowing the government to lower other taxes with the result that people aren't actually paying anything more on net but you've created a penalty for goods imported from adversarial countries that domestic manufacturers can avoid.
  - jquery 2y ago
    If they're being used as a major revenue generator, and not simply as a strategic way to negotiate with countries, then tariffs should be determined by Congress. This is a huge power grab by the Presidency. Extreme across-the-board tariffs that Trump is talking about are unprecedented in American politics, outside of wartime perhaps. We are in uncharted territory and it's nothing good imo. If massive tariffs are so great, get a bill through the House and Senate.
    - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
      Negotiating with other countries is traditionally done by the executive branch and tariffs are a significant lever in those negotiations. The President has the authority to do that because Congress passed a law that said so. They could pass a different law, if they want to, but what if they like the tariffs? Then all they have to do is lower other taxes as the tariff revenue allows them to do. Also, just because tariffs generate a lot of revenue doesn't mean that's their purpose. Their purpose is to put pressure on specific countries or promote domestic manufacturing. The revenue is just what allows other taxes to be lowered to balance out the impact on US consumers.
bruce511 2y ago
The explicit goal of tarrifs is yo raise prices. This is not a bug, it's the whole reason for tarrifs to exist. The argument is that if the going rate for something is high enough, it makes sense to manufacture it locally. And of course local manufacturing has major knock-on benefits. This logic falls down though when you bring the capital cost, and life-span of a factory into account. I'm only building a factory if I expect prices to -remain high-. And tarifs are set (unilaterally) by the president without congress (which I why Trump likes them) but they can be removed just as quickly. Interestingly the importer in the article was looking at alternate chains of supply, but "manufacturing in the US" wasn't one of his proposed solutions. It also assumes that countries don't respond with tit-for-tat tarifs which harm factories already in the US. That certainly happened last time he used tarifs as a weapon. This is not rocket science. It's not even economics. Its what anyone who has ever imported anything can figure out for themselves.
- elmerfud 2y ago
  I agree, they are a powerful tool if used correctly. There are some benefits to the "make it locally" but it's also dependent on the specific goods. There are some tariff that have been in place for decades to simply prop up industries that should have died of years ago in favor of imports.
  - jquery 2y ago
    I'm convinced the entire reason Trump is so obsessed with tariffs is he doesn't need congressional support. It's just a power grab. Hopefully someone knocks some sense into him before he follows through, but if not, I'll enjoy seeing leopards eating people's faces at least.
    - elmerfud 2y ago
      Of course, people always like to turn the knob they have the most control over. It's also the easiest way to pass yourself off as being a protectionist. Right now I think everyone is in speculation mode. I think everyone has forgotten 2016-2020 Trump speaks in massive exaggerations and hyperbole. The reality of what happens is likely to be much different than all this anticipation. The fact is the only one making a profit off of all of this talk is the news outlets that everyone is consuming incessantly.
throwaway2016a 2y ago
While tariffs may make people consider where they source their products, corporate income/profits tax has incentives too. Things like hiring more people, research, development, capital improvements, etc all impact the companies tax bottom line. So in that sense, corporate taxes incentives companies to spend their money instead of hoarding it, using it for executive bonuses, or giving it back to the shareholders. A vast majority of manufacturers don't source their materials from the US for good reason. Either the US is more expensive or the US supply is completely non-existant. Tariffs aren't going to fix that because domestic suppliers when given a monopoly are not going to magically lower costs and moving production here will take years and cost far more than just continuing to pay the tarrifs.

jquery 2y ago

Taxes on businesses can be sidestepped the same way tariffs can be sidestepped. Tariffs are taxes.

elmerfud 2y ago
They are a form of tax, but where is applied is different, which is why it gets its own term.
- jquery 2y ago
  Sure, but the fact "tax" isn't part of the term, as opposed to "sales tax" or "property tax" or "income tax" I think its use during the campaign mislead the American people. I don't think most people voted for 20% across the board higher taxes on goods and services.
  - elmerfud 2y ago
    I think you're framing this in an "I don't like this candidate" way rather than the electorate en masse is generally pretty ignorant. Each party always talks in terms that will largely be poorly understood by most. The idea of taxing businesses because they don't pay enough or taxing the "rich" because they don't pay enough is simply another way of passing that tax down to those who are consuming these services. You don't raise Walmart's corporate tax rate without Walmart raising prices and affecting everyone who shops there. At least with the tariff there is options.
AnthonyMouse 2y ago
> Tariffs are taxes. But that's the point. They generate revenue for the government, allowing the government to lower other taxes with the result that people aren't actually paying anything more on net but you've created a penalty for goods imported from adversarial countries that domestic manufacturers can avoid.
- jquery 2y ago
  If they're being used as a major revenue generator, and not simply as a strategic way to negotiate with countries, then tariffs should be determined by Congress. This is a huge power grab by the Presidency. Extreme across-the-board tariffs that Trump is talking about are unprecedented in American politics, outside of wartime perhaps. We are in uncharted territory and it's nothing good imo. If massive tariffs are so great, get a bill through the House and Senate.
  - AnthonyMouse 2y ago
    Negotiating with other countries is traditionally done by the executive branch and tariffs are a significant lever in those negotiations. The President has the authority to do that because Congress passed a law that said so. They could pass a different law, if they want to, but what if they like the tariffs? Then all they have to do is lower other taxes as the tariff revenue allows them to do. Also, just because tariffs generate a lot of revenue doesn't mean that's their purpose. Their purpose is to put pressure on specific countries or promote domestic manufacturing. The revenue is just what allows other taxes to be lowered to balance out the impact on US consumers.

bruce511 2y ago

The explicit goal of tarrifs is yo raise prices. This is not a bug, it's the whole reason for tarrifs to exist. The argument is that if the going rate for something is high enough, it makes sense to manufacture it locally. And of course local manufacturing has major knock-on benefits. This logic falls down though when you bring the capital cost, and life-span of a factory into account. I'm only building a factory if I expect prices to -remain high-. And tarifs are set (unilaterally) by the president without congress (which I why Trump likes them) but they can be removed just as quickly. Interestingly the importer in the article was looking at alternate chains of supply, but "manufacturing in the US" wasn't one of his proposed solutions. It also assumes that countries don't respond with tit-for-tat tarifs which harm factories already in the US. That certainly happened last time he used tarifs as a weapon. This is not rocket science. It's not even economics. Its what anyone who has ever imported anything can figure out for themselves.

elmerfud 2y ago
I agree, they are a powerful tool if used correctly. There are some benefits to the "make it locally" but it's also dependent on the specific goods. There are some tariff that have been in place for decades to simply prop up industries that should have died of years ago in favor of imports.
- jquery 2y ago
  I'm convinced the entire reason Trump is so obsessed with tariffs is he doesn't need congressional support. It's just a power grab. Hopefully someone knocks some sense into him before he follows through, but if not, I'll enjoy seeing leopards eating people's faces at least.
  - elmerfud 2y ago
    Of course, people always like to turn the knob they have the most control over. It's also the easiest way to pass yourself off as being a protectionist. Right now I think everyone is in speculation mode. I think everyone has forgotten 2016-2020 Trump speaks in massive exaggerations and hyperbole. The reality of what happens is likely to be much different than all this anticipation. The fact is the only one making a profit off of all of this talk is the news outlets that everyone is consuming incessantly.

throwaway2016a 2y ago

While tariffs may make people consider where they source their products, corporate income/profits tax has incentives too. Things like hiring more people, research, development, capital improvements, etc all impact the companies tax bottom line. So in that sense, corporate taxes incentives companies to spend their money instead of hoarding it, using it for executive bonuses, or giving it back to the shareholders. A vast majority of manufacturers don't source their materials from the US for good reason. Either the US is more expensive or the US supply is completely non-existant. Tariffs aren't going to fix that because domestic suppliers when given a monopoly are not going to magically lower costs and moving production here will take years and cost far more than just continuing to pay the tarrifs.