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>So, those memes are true descriptions of the market right now. I can't agree. I made my move to SF largely motivated by Ramit's info products (which I owe $40

by xiaoma 14y ago

>So, those memes are true descriptions of the market right now. I can't agree. I made my move to SF largely motivated by Ramit's info products (which I owe $400/month for). I've been engaging in exactly this kind of networking for 2 months while watching my savings dwindle to critical levels. Inviting people out for coffee is good for networking and networking is useful. It's not sufficient for getting a job and hiring managers aren't that desperate. I've managed to bypass some HR filters, which is a good thing. However the market is hot for very specific skills and for 100x programmers. It's not so hot for those with more modest experience, especially those over 30. I am far beyond fizzbuzz. I got all the cookies on Hacker Rank with a pure JS solution. I've been coding a little here and there for several years, and have 1 year of work experience at a start-up in China. The thing is, the bar is a bit higher than that. True example #1: I met a YC founder at a meet-up had a great chat with him, and was invited to visit a start-up. I bypassed some of the normal HR process and got a chance to write a UI widget (as a pre-interview challenge). It was to read a bunch of user data from JSON and make a list with pagination, with user selection by clicking anywhere on their LI and a select all/none box. Here's what I wrote (modified to obscure the identity of the company in question): http://logicmason.com/UI%20challenge/playground.html http://logicmason.com/UI%20challenge/playground.html I thought I was awesome for building it on top of jQuery pajinate and separating all the CSS and JS customization I made from the libraries. In reality they were looking for a something with a lot more abstraction, maybe built on backbone.js or angular.js with handlebars. That's stuff I'd never even heard of until moving to SF! Example #2: A 4-5 year old company aggressively recruits me, goes over code I've written in the past, gets me to go in to meet them, all is going well and then they ask how many years of professional experience I have with ruby (answer 1 month). End of interview. Example #3: I get a phone screen at another cool start-up doing something similar to the one I worked for. I'm open for any position, but apply as a junior level front end guy. I get a phone screen in which I do okay on algorithms, but not so well on obj C memory management... I'm not saying that networking isn't worth it. I am getting a steady stream of opportunities and sometimes miss by the slimmest of margins. Hopefully I've made a sports or starcraft buddy from it as well, who I'll meet up with after getting my cash flow in order. But the market isn't nearly as hungry as you believe it is from your perch as a fairly well known expert who does highly paid consulting. I say this as someone who has a business background and who has invested heavily in exactly the techniques you suggest. I had a much, much easier time getting a tech job in Beijing. I'm still hustling for odd jobs to hopefully make rent and pay Ramit, but in the remaining time I'll be working on the hard skills (as well as stuff to show off on github since that seems to be so huge here). That means doing everything I can on codeschool and building a project on a JS framework so that next time I have an opportunity like #1 above, I seize it.

patio11 14y ago
But the market isn't nearly as hungry as you believe it is from your perch as a fairly well known expert who does highly paid consulting. Sidenote (and it is Ramit-y in character): if we have this conversation again in two years, what will you be a fairly well-known expert in, since you have (correctly) noted that it gives one attractive options in terms of career growth? Meat of post: I do not believe that the hiring market is on-fire because of my little one-man slice of it, but rather because it has been reported as on fire in the media, because people who are extraordinarily credible to me on the matter describe it as on fire, because I talk to startupers like it is my hobby and they are in virtually unanimous agreement that it is on fire, and that my paid-for clients say things like "Dude if you can find us an engineer then forget about actually doing what we hired you to do and play League of Legends for the next two weeks and we'll both walk away happy from this consulting engagement."
- xiaoma 14y ago
  Popularity and fame are highly self-reinforcing, thus not nearly so deterministic as you might think. There is some luck and a lot of volatility involved since people tend to copy each other's decisions (even when the signalling quality is poor). See: http://www.livescience.com/7016-science-hit-songs.html http://www.livescience.com/7016-science-hit-songs.html Did you have a plan two years before BCC to be well-known for it? I think it's more common for people to stumble onto a first hit, but there are things you can do to increase the chances. My meta-strategy is to work on multiple projects and stay close to new, emerging things where there is a lot more space up for grabs. If what you say is true then send startupers or clients or both this way and go play League of Legends. No, really. Do it right now.
alinajaf 14y ago
Do you have any social proof to speak of? Testimonials from previous employers or even just a well-designed case-study of the work you did for them? In any of your interviews did you engage the client in terms of their value proposition to customers and suggest improvements above and beyond what you were being hired to do? Anything from 'What have you tried to get more information about your users?' to 'I've had success using #{some_tech} for managing complexity in #{something} codebases, what have you tried so far?' Can you demonstrate technical skill beyond what the clients are expecting of you? For example, if you didn't use backbone.js or some higher level abstraction around your paginated list, were you able to discuss the tradeoffs of using that sort of framework? If you have only one months professional experience with ruby, did you at least send an example rails application over to them for their developers to look at? If I click on your HN profile or a link in your email signature, do I get linked to your portfolio website that clearly outlines your value proposition to potential hirers? What is it exactly that you can do for me? Your LinkedIn profile for example is mostly about your non-technical experience, which is great, but doesn't make me feel better about hiring you. You have a list of technologies but what exactly is it that you're a specialist at? As someone who is charging a hefty daily-rate, with nowhere near the level of acclaim as patio11, with comparable technical skills to you living in a city with a substantially smaller tech scene, I get the impression that your lack of secured work is more to do with your communication/sales skills than it is with your technical ability or connections.

by xiaoma 14y ago

patio11 14y ago

But the market isn't nearly as hungry as you believe it is from your perch as a fairly well known expert who does highly paid consulting. Sidenote (and it is Ramit-y in character): if we have this conversation again in two years, what will you be a fairly well-known expert in, since you have (correctly) noted that it gives one attractive options in terms of career growth? Meat of post: I do not believe that the hiring market is on-fire because of my little one-man slice of it, but rather because it has been reported as on fire in the media, because people who are extraordinarily credible to me on the matter describe it as on fire, because I talk to startupers like it is my hobby and they are in virtually unanimous agreement that it is on fire, and that my paid-for clients say things like "Dude if you can find us an engineer then forget about actually doing what we hired you to do and play League of Legends for the next two weeks and we'll both walk away happy from this consulting engagement."

xiaoma 14y ago
Popularity and fame are highly self-reinforcing, thus not nearly so deterministic as you might think. There is some luck and a lot of volatility involved since people tend to copy each other's decisions (even when the signalling quality is poor). See: http://www.livescience.com/7016-science-hit-songs.html http://www.livescience.com/7016-science-hit-songs.html Did you have a plan two years before BCC to be well-known for it? I think it's more common for people to stumble onto a first hit, but there are things you can do to increase the chances. My meta-strategy is to work on multiple projects and stay close to new, emerging things where there is a lot more space up for grabs. If what you say is true then send startupers or clients or both this way and go play League of Legends. No, really. Do it right now.

alinajaf 14y ago

Do you have any social proof to speak of? Testimonials from previous employers or even just a well-designed case-study of the work you did for them? In any of your interviews did you engage the client in terms of their value proposition to customers and suggest improvements above and beyond what you were being hired to do? Anything from 'What have you tried to get more information about your users?' to 'I've had success using #{some_tech} for managing complexity in #{something} codebases, what have you tried so far?' Can you demonstrate technical skill beyond what the clients are expecting of you? For example, if you didn't use backbone.js or some higher level abstraction around your paginated list, were you able to discuss the tradeoffs of using that sort of framework? If you have only one months professional experience with ruby, did you at least send an example rails application over to them for their developers to look at? If I click on your HN profile or a link in your email signature, do I get linked to your portfolio website that clearly outlines your value proposition to potential hirers? What is it exactly that you can do for me? Your LinkedIn profile for example is mostly about your non-technical experience, which is great, but doesn't make me feel better about hiring you. You have a list of technologies but what exactly is it that you're a specialist at? As someone who is charging a hefty daily-rate, with nowhere near the level of acclaim as patio11, with comparable technical skills to you living in a city with a substantially smaller tech scene, I get the impression that your lack of secured work is more to do with your communication/sales skills than it is with your technical ability or connections.