5 ms·

> Just become a shareholder I always forget that all people, regardless of their capital, can "just become a shareholder".

thrw42A8N 2y ago
Yes, they can - stock can be part of compensation. I'm sure almost any company would happily pay you in stock rather than in cash. And buying isn't the only way of becoming a shareholder, especially in software. I co-founded my first startup when I was 16, as soon as I reached the lower age limit for being a company shareholder in the UK - I'm not from the UK, but I wanted it and so I found a way. If a 16 year old kid with acne and 300 euro in their wallet can do it, any adult professional can. Yeah it's a load of risk, you work crazy hours, the stress is insane and sometimes you end up paying instead of earning - so don't be surprised that nobody will share the upside if you don't share the risk. It's not for everyone. But anyone can, if they actually wanted.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- whaaaaat 2y ago
  I remember when I was 18, trying to earn my way through college, scrounging by on less than minimum wage because I was paid under the table. Living in a flat with 8 other people to make the rent math work. Foolish me for not just becoming a shareholder. I definitely had the spare time between the $7k/year I was making to take that risk and not die of starvation. Your world would be great if I had a guarantee of food, water, a bed, basic medicine, etc. I'd love to have had the ability to throw my time at a risky innovative project. But, I didn't. If I had, and that project failed, I would have literally died. Downsides are too big in this capitalist world for anyone to just become a shareholder.
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    Yeah, as I said, it's definitely not for everyone. I skipped school because I wanted to do business. Sometimes I didn't have enough food, at the beginning. I had to buy (very) used instead of new. I lived at the far end of the city and I didn't really go anywhere because I didn't have enough money for bus tickets. A lot of sacrifice - and now someone comes and wants to have all of it without any sacrifice. I agree the world can be improved and your suggestions are what I have in mind too. But imho it's off topic to this conversation. You said that you want to get all profit you made for the company - that's only possible if it's your company. If you don't want that, that's fine - but don't say the option isn't available.
thrw42A8N 2y ago
It's much easier to become a shareholder than to become an employee. Today it takes about an hour, you can do it online, and you need just 50 EUR. Of course, the real trick is in making profit - and now it's up to you to show how invaluable and company-making-or-breaking your skills are - as they should be if you're asking for the full upside. Can't do it? Then you have to share with sales, marketing, accounting, tax consultants, finance, auditors, lawyers, internal IT, HR, post-sales account managers, customer support, office managers, other engineers - and of course the people who keep it organized, and the people who took a risk and funded it. Seems fair to me. Consider the opportunity cost of providing capital: if I invested my capital into NASDAQ100 accumulating ETF, I could reasonably expect 10-15% of yearly tax-free[0] profit stored in a safe asset that can be liquidated at any time. Potentially much more profit - last few years were great (20-40% p.a.). You have to give me more if you want me to risk my capital in a custom illiquid and unregulated over the counter deal, and I mean a lot more. [0] In my country if you hold an asset for 3 years, you don't pay capital gains tax - this doesn't apply to dividends or any other form of income such as interest or rent. But the accumulating ETFs are fully tax free after 3 years - including the dividends and the gains. You just sell when you need money, no need to "reinvest" manually.

thrw42A8N 2y ago

Yes, they can - stock can be part of compensation. I'm sure almost any company would happily pay you in stock rather than in cash. And buying isn't the only way of becoming a shareholder, especially in software. I co-founded my first startup when I was 16, as soon as I reached the lower age limit for being a company shareholder in the UK - I'm not from the UK, but I wanted it and so I found a way. If a 16 year old kid with acne and 300 euro in their wallet can do it, any adult professional can. Yeah it's a load of risk, you work crazy hours, the stress is insane and sometimes you end up paying instead of earning - so don't be surprised that nobody will share the upside if you don't share the risk. It's not for everyone. But anyone can, if they actually wanted.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
whaaaaat 2y ago
I remember when I was 18, trying to earn my way through college, scrounging by on less than minimum wage because I was paid under the table. Living in a flat with 8 other people to make the rent math work. Foolish me for not just becoming a shareholder. I definitely had the spare time between the $7k/year I was making to take that risk and not die of starvation. Your world would be great if I had a guarantee of food, water, a bed, basic medicine, etc. I'd love to have had the ability to throw my time at a risky innovative project. But, I didn't. If I had, and that project failed, I would have literally died. Downsides are too big in this capitalist world for anyone to just become a shareholder.
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  Yeah, as I said, it's definitely not for everyone. I skipped school because I wanted to do business. Sometimes I didn't have enough food, at the beginning. I had to buy (very) used instead of new. I lived at the far end of the city and I didn't really go anywhere because I didn't have enough money for bus tickets. A lot of sacrifice - and now someone comes and wants to have all of it without any sacrifice. I agree the world can be improved and your suggestions are what I have in mind too. But imho it's off topic to this conversation. You said that you want to get all profit you made for the company - that's only possible if it's your company. If you don't want that, that's fine - but don't say the option isn't available.

thrw42A8N 2y ago

It's much easier to become a shareholder than to become an employee. Today it takes about an hour, you can do it online, and you need just 50 EUR. Of course, the real trick is in making profit - and now it's up to you to show how invaluable and company-making-or-breaking your skills are - as they should be if you're asking for the full upside. Can't do it? Then you have to share with sales, marketing, accounting, tax consultants, finance, auditors, lawyers, internal IT, HR, post-sales account managers, customer support, office managers, other engineers - and of course the people who keep it organized, and the people who took a risk and funded it. Seems fair to me. Consider the opportunity cost of providing capital: if I invested my capital into NASDAQ100 accumulating ETF, I could reasonably expect 10-15% of yearly tax-free[0] profit stored in a safe asset that can be liquidated at any time. Potentially much more profit - last few years were great (20-40% p.a.). You have to give me more if you want me to risk my capital in a custom illiquid and unregulated over the counter deal, and I mean a lot more. [0] In my country if you hold an asset for 3 years, you don't pay capital gains tax - this doesn't apply to dividends or any other form of income such as interest or rent. But the accumulating ETFs are fully tax free after 3 years - including the dividends and the gains. You just sell when you need money, no need to "reinvest" manually.