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Back when cars had hardly any anti-theft mechanism, we'd put hidden toggle switch(es) that'd cut off the fuel pump and other stuff. In the 90s we'd get fancier

Back when cars had hardly any anti-theft mechanism, we'd put hidden toggle switch(es) that'd cut off the fuel pump and other stuff. In the 90s we'd get fancier and use (in addition to hidden toggle switch(es)) stuff like custom made transponder thinggies: we'd have a female port installed on the dashboard and the corresponding male "jack" on our keychain. These took a few hours to install and would shut some wires at different points. They were "dumb" in a way (it was obvious looking at the dashboard that a car had such a system installed) but not easy to remove: you had to follow the wiring for a long time to find where the various cut-off points where installed. Funnily enough after 30 years or so many of these transponders (?) start failing and it's a very common cause of youngtimer cars being stuck on the side of the road. While a dumb hidden toggle switch shall pretty much work forever (but is easier to neutralize as you only need to find the switch). A toggle switch is literally less than $5 and trivially installed. For added fun you can also add stuff directly on the fuses: they're easier to find but there are more advanced kits (for example you plug it on an important fuse and then you've got a remote on your keychain to "unlock" the mechanism). I mean: yup, you can look into cryptography and install this and that software countermeasure. Or, you, know, you can install (or have installed) a $5 toggle switch. P.S: this made me think... I'll probably install a fake toggle switch, obvious to be found, linked to the highest non legal alarm I can find on alibaba. So if anyone tries to steal the car, he'll toggle the switch and trigger the alarm. That's dumb as heck and yet may work just fine.

CamperBob2 2y ago
There's also the question of how the incentives are aligned. At a time when the chief competition for new cars is older cars that are still perfectly functional, I'm sure manufacturers love the idea of being "forced" to include a deliberate single point of failure. One that will probably survive the warranty period, but that will instantly render the car beyond economical repair, by design, when it does fail. "Please don't throw us into that briar patch," you can hear them begging the regulators.
- bluGill 2y ago
  Not really old cars having value means someone who wants a new car can trade in their old. If cars only lasted three years rich would be buying $30000 cars and many would be skipping the heater and electric start to lower prices.
beala 2y ago
Were these aftermarket products? It sounds like they only worked because they were bespoke. If Toyota started putting these switches on all cars it would simply become common knowledge among thieves right?
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Yes, and they weren't all a bed of roses. Aftermarket car alarms, disablers, remote start systems, etc. were pretty notorious for causing minor to fairly serious issues of their own. Also maybe because a lot of the installers were not very good at their jobs.
hawski 2y ago
I am reminded of the war rig's kill switch in Mad Max: Fury Road.
gopher_space 2y ago
I'm thinking of my old Landcruiser, which was secured by some fiddly choke-and-throttle work. And my VW van with its "security through obscurity" linkage. The act of using them includes a signal to the rest of the world that they're in use (sorry, neighbors) and there's an unavoidable delay between signaling that intention and actually being able to use the equipment. Once in motion they require intimate knowledge of the machinery to remain in that state. I'm wondering about "security through removing automation" at this point. E.g. what services am I relying on that could be reduced to manual commands when I need them?

CamperBob2 2y ago

There's also the question of how the incentives are aligned. At a time when the chief competition for new cars is older cars that are still perfectly functional, I'm sure manufacturers love the idea of being "forced" to include a deliberate single point of failure. One that will probably survive the warranty period, but that will instantly render the car beyond economical repair, by design, when it does fail. "Please don't throw us into that briar patch," you can hear them begging the regulators.

bluGill 2y ago
Not really old cars having value means someone who wants a new car can trade in their old. If cars only lasted three years rich would be buying $30000 cars and many would be skipping the heater and electric start to lower prices.

beala 2y ago

Were these aftermarket products? It sounds like they only worked because they were bespoke. If Toyota started putting these switches on all cars it would simply become common knowledge among thieves right?

SoftTalker 2y ago
Yes, and they weren't all a bed of roses. Aftermarket car alarms, disablers, remote start systems, etc. were pretty notorious for causing minor to fairly serious issues of their own. Also maybe because a lot of the installers were not very good at their jobs.

hawski 2y ago

I am reminded of the war rig's kill switch in Mad Max: Fury Road.

gopher_space 2y ago

I'm thinking of my old Landcruiser, which was secured by some fiddly choke-and-throttle work. And my VW van with its "security through obscurity" linkage. The act of using them includes a signal to the rest of the world that they're in use (sorry, neighbors) and there's an unavoidable delay between signaling that intention and actually being able to use the equipment. Once in motion they require intimate knowledge of the machinery to remain in that state. I'm wondering about "security through removing automation" at this point. E.g. what services am I relying on that could be reduced to manual commands when I need them?