4 ms·

It is sad to see such a comment come from someone with such high karma and seniority. I hope that it is not reflective of the ethos of this community. I feel w

It is sad to see such a comment come from someone with such high karma and seniority. I hope that it is not reflective of the ethos of this community. I feel we have way too little humanity in tech. With the advent of AI, that does not promise to improve.

bena 2y ago
Not to mention, we have a bunch of names that are just jokes, bad puns, random references, or idle wordplay. C# is named because it’s a step up from C++, which is one better than C, which is the next thing after B. Python is just an arbitrarily chosen name referencing a comedy troupe. Linux is Linus’s copy of Minix, which is a minimal Unix, which is based off of Multics, which is a pseudo-initialism. We have names honoring the dead; Pascal, Ada, Darwin. We can name one color in one spec in honor of one person’s dead child. It is neither a burden nor out of character for the field. If you genuinely believe it is a problem, I ask that you step back and reflect on why you truly believe it is.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  Isn't "PHP" a play on words? I'm told that it stands for "PHP Hypertext Processor." A recursive acronym.
  - efreak 2y ago
    Originally it was personal home page
johnisgood 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- TimTheTinker 2y ago
  I agree with not switching from "master" to "main" in git branch parliance. (The music industry didn't stop "mastering" albums, with good reason -- it's a technical term that refers to technical authority, which is a concept worth keeping.) But I don't think this thread is the place for such a discussion. Technical authority and "woke" culture arguments are one thing, but we're talking here about honoring Erie Meier (a seminal figure in CSS history) and his daughter by adding a named color (basically an alias) to CSS and using it in the logo. That's worth doing simply out of love and honor for Eric, his wife and family, and his daughter.
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    Just to clarify: my comment was not related to Erie Meier at all. I do not mind the rename from beccapurple to rebeccapurple either.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  I’m sorry that it seems this comment was dinged. It was (in my opinion) a reasonable one, and not delivered in an attack fashion. I can only speak for myself, but I inject a great deal of “humanity” into my technical work. I write software that Serves a pretty marginalized and sidelined demographic. Not many folks are willing to do the type of work that I do. I certainly don’t do it for the kudos. I don’t think most of the folks here, would care, and some, might actually hate me for doing the work. I do it, because I actually have a personal stake in the work, and because I care -deeply- about the people that use my software. Whenever I design an app, I keep in mind the folks that use it, and ensure that it delivers something that they need (not what I think they need; what they actually need). My work is informed by a mental model that I have, imagining the software being used by people, not by it projecting my brand, making money (it’s free), or salving personal insecurities. I’m quite aware that this is not the norm, in the industry, but I have worked for companies that kept a laser focus on the end-user experience, which involves a great deal of “getting into their heads.”
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    I did not consider your comment to be an attack in any way. My issue boils down to some completely wanting to change IT terminology because of "emotions" which happens because people do not consider the context in which it is embedded.
    - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
      I meant your comment. It seemed to be unpopular.
  - andriesm 2y ago
    Everytime I see the content dissappear from being flagged and moderated away, I feel poorer and wonder what it was that I can no longer be allowed to read. How aggressively should messages be moderated on HN? After I had myself been unreasonably sensored in other discussions, this very active moderation is giving me serious concerns about HN. Robot spam should be moderated, or illegal things, but do we really need edgy comments hidden from view? I've seen a lot of magnanimous, wise and empathic responses on some otherwise cutting comments, a lot of goodwill here on HN. Do we really need the heavy hand of censors to protect us from offensive speech???
- II2II 2y ago
  > Recently, we renamed the "master" branch to "main," which was seen by some as a step toward inclusivity. But does this truly contribute to meaningful progress? In that case, probably not since the world master has multiple meanings. However, as you noted, it is common to use master/slave terminology in the hardware world. That terminology is definitely problematic because we are humans. We are affected by human history and we are affected by social constructs. Something similar can be said about killing processes. It is also worth noting that people noticed that terminology was problematic long before the current social environment, probably because it affects a much broader range of the population. (For example: I don't see that terminology used much outside of Unix.)
  - johnisgood 2y ago
    The terminology itself is not inherently problematic; it is essential for us, as humans (as you noted), to be capable of compartmentalizing and recognizing the context in which terms are used. Language often carries multiple meanings, and our ability to discern the appropriate meaning within a specific context is a critical cognitive skill. Neutralizing a term or altering it solely for the sake of political correctness (or whatever you may call it) is not the most effective approach when dealing with terminology that has long-standing and widespread usage. Such changes can create unnecessary confusion, disrupt established workflows, and detract from efforts to address more impactful systemic issues. Instead, fostering education and promoting contextual understanding can better equip individuals to interpret terms appropriately without discarding their historical or technical significance. > Something similar can be said about killing processes. It is also worth noting that people noticed that terminology was problematic long before the current social environment, probably because it affects a much broader range of the population. People should ideally not be affected by such terminology, as it is clearly used within a technical context with no intention of causing harm or evoking negative connotations[1]. The phrase "killing processes" for example, is a metaphorical term that accurately describes terminating a running operation in computing. Allowing neutral, domain-specific terminology to become a source of offense risks overextending sensitivity and detracts from the importance of addressing genuinely harmful language or actions in broader societal contexts. As I have previously mentioned, fostering an understanding of the technical intent behind such terms can help mitigate unnecessary emotional responses. Altering long-standing and widespread technical terminology for perceived correctness is often futile, as individuals who lack contextual understanding or are overly sensitive could potentially take offense at ANY TERM. If anything, we should focus on education and promoting linguistic contextualization that ensures terms are understood within their intended meaning, preserving clarity, historical significance, and functionality. [1] master/slave terminology has absolutely nothing to do with slavery, for example.
kaladin-jasnah 2y ago
It quite reminds me of Richard Stallman's reply on an email list asking people to refrain from posting about the birth of a baby on a technical mailing list. http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-doctor.html http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...
- Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
  This color is beautiful, the deleted comment was likely nasty, and Stallman was right. Nuance;
shadowgovt 2y ago
I'm not sure it's fair for me to comment on "the ethos of this community," but I remember when rebeccapurple was added to the spec and there were commenters here bemoaning adding complexity to the spec for no benefit. I'll say "You will find more than zero people here who don't really seem to consider humanity and tech overlapping domains."

bena 2y ago

Not to mention, we have a bunch of names that are just jokes, bad puns, random references, or idle wordplay. C# is named because it’s a step up from C++, which is one better than C, which is the next thing after B. Python is just an arbitrarily chosen name referencing a comedy troupe. Linux is Linus’s copy of Minix, which is a minimal Unix, which is based off of Multics, which is a pseudo-initialism. We have names honoring the dead; Pascal, Ada, Darwin. We can name one color in one spec in honor of one person’s dead child. It is neither a burden nor out of character for the field. If you genuinely believe it is a problem, I ask that you step back and reflect on why you truly believe it is.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
Isn't "PHP" a play on words? I'm told that it stands for "PHP Hypertext Processor." A recursive acronym.
- efreak 2y ago
  Originally it was personal home page

johnisgood 2y ago

[flagged]

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
TimTheTinker 2y ago
I agree with not switching from "master" to "main" in git branch parliance. (The music industry didn't stop "mastering" albums, with good reason -- it's a technical term that refers to technical authority, which is a concept worth keeping.) But I don't think this thread is the place for such a discussion. Technical authority and "woke" culture arguments are one thing, but we're talking here about honoring Erie Meier (a seminal figure in CSS history) and his daughter by adding a named color (basically an alias) to CSS and using it in the logo. That's worth doing simply out of love and honor for Eric, his wife and family, and his daughter.
- johnisgood 2y ago
  Just to clarify: my comment was not related to Erie Meier at all. I do not mind the rename from beccapurple to rebeccapurple either.
ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
I’m sorry that it seems this comment was dinged. It was (in my opinion) a reasonable one, and not delivered in an attack fashion. I can only speak for myself, but I inject a great deal of “humanity” into my technical work. I write software that Serves a pretty marginalized and sidelined demographic. Not many folks are willing to do the type of work that I do. I certainly don’t do it for the kudos. I don’t think most of the folks here, would care, and some, might actually hate me for doing the work. I do it, because I actually have a personal stake in the work, and because I care -deeply- about the people that use my software. Whenever I design an app, I keep in mind the folks that use it, and ensure that it delivers something that they need (not what I think they need; what they actually need). My work is informed by a mental model that I have, imagining the software being used by people, not by it projecting my brand, making money (it’s free), or salving personal insecurities. I’m quite aware that this is not the norm, in the industry, but I have worked for companies that kept a laser focus on the end-user experience, which involves a great deal of “getting into their heads.”
- johnisgood 2y ago
  I did not consider your comment to be an attack in any way. My issue boils down to some completely wanting to change IT terminology because of "emotions" which happens because people do not consider the context in which it is embedded.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    I meant your comment. It seemed to be unpopular.
- andriesm 2y ago
  Everytime I see the content dissappear from being flagged and moderated away, I feel poorer and wonder what it was that I can no longer be allowed to read. How aggressively should messages be moderated on HN? After I had myself been unreasonably sensored in other discussions, this very active moderation is giving me serious concerns about HN. Robot spam should be moderated, or illegal things, but do we really need edgy comments hidden from view? I've seen a lot of magnanimous, wise and empathic responses on some otherwise cutting comments, a lot of goodwill here on HN. Do we really need the heavy hand of censors to protect us from offensive speech???
II2II 2y ago
> Recently, we renamed the "master" branch to "main," which was seen by some as a step toward inclusivity. But does this truly contribute to meaningful progress? In that case, probably not since the world master has multiple meanings. However, as you noted, it is common to use master/slave terminology in the hardware world. That terminology is definitely problematic because we are humans. We are affected by human history and we are affected by social constructs. Something similar can be said about killing processes. It is also worth noting that people noticed that terminology was problematic long before the current social environment, probably because it affects a much broader range of the population. (For example: I don't see that terminology used much outside of Unix.)
- johnisgood 2y ago
  The terminology itself is not inherently problematic; it is essential for us, as humans (as you noted), to be capable of compartmentalizing and recognizing the context in which terms are used. Language often carries multiple meanings, and our ability to discern the appropriate meaning within a specific context is a critical cognitive skill. Neutralizing a term or altering it solely for the sake of political correctness (or whatever you may call it) is not the most effective approach when dealing with terminology that has long-standing and widespread usage. Such changes can create unnecessary confusion, disrupt established workflows, and detract from efforts to address more impactful systemic issues. Instead, fostering education and promoting contextual understanding can better equip individuals to interpret terms appropriately without discarding their historical or technical significance. > Something similar can be said about killing processes. It is also worth noting that people noticed that terminology was problematic long before the current social environment, probably because it affects a much broader range of the population. People should ideally not be affected by such terminology, as it is clearly used within a technical context with no intention of causing harm or evoking negative connotations[1]. The phrase "killing processes" for example, is a metaphorical term that accurately describes terminating a running operation in computing. Allowing neutral, domain-specific terminology to become a source of offense risks overextending sensitivity and detracts from the importance of addressing genuinely harmful language or actions in broader societal contexts. As I have previously mentioned, fostering an understanding of the technical intent behind such terms can help mitigate unnecessary emotional responses. Altering long-standing and widespread technical terminology for perceived correctness is often futile, as individuals who lack contextual understanding or are overly sensitive could potentially take offense at ANY TERM. If anything, we should focus on education and promoting linguistic contextualization that ensures terms are understood within their intended meaning, preserving clarity, historical significance, and functionality. [1] master/slave terminology has absolutely nothing to do with slavery, for example.

kaladin-jasnah 2y ago

It quite reminds me of Richard Stallman's reply on an email list asking people to refrain from posting about the birth of a baby on a technical mailing list. http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-doctor.html http://www.art.net/studios/hackers/hopkins/Don/text/rms-vs-d...

Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
This color is beautiful, the deleted comment was likely nasty, and Stallman was right. Nuance;

shadowgovt 2y ago

I'm not sure it's fair for me to comment on "the ethos of this community," but I remember when rebeccapurple was added to the spec and there were commenters here bemoaning adding complexity to the spec for no benefit. I'll say "You will find more than zero people here who don't really seem to consider humanity and tech overlapping domains."