4 ms·

That doesn't really make sense historically. "The UK" is a modern concept relatively speaking, the Act of Union didn't pass until long after the slaving and loo

That doesn't really make sense historically. "The UK" is a modern concept relatively speaking, the Act of Union didn't pass until long after the slaving and looting got going.

thaumasiotes 2y ago
> That doesn't really make sense historically. "The UK" is a modern concept relatively speaking It makes perfect sense; you just have to acknowledge that to anyone outside England, "England" and "the UK" are identical in meaning.
- daedalus_f 2y ago
  It’s surprising how many people get them mixed up even in the UK. England is one country of the United Kingdom. Scotland, England and Wales make up the island of Great Britain, the largest of the British Isles. The UK also includes Northern Ireland. Hence: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island. I was confused too, thought that Great Britain referred to the archipelago as a whole (excluding Ireland) rather than the largest island.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    I've seen it stated variously that Little Britain is either Ireland, or Brittany. For a long time I've felt that one of the traditional titles of the Russian czars, "Czar of all the Russias", was cooler than the titles I was aware of for other rulers. I was surprised to find the seal of an English queen on Wikipedia which clearly showed a Latin title translating as "Queen of all the Britains". The switch from "King of Britain" to "King of the Britains" seems to have occurred during the reign of George III, judging by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_Realm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_Realm . None of those include an "all", but I'm sure it was present in the seal I saw.
    - amenhotep 2y ago
      "Britanniarum omnium"? Present from what I can tell on coins rather than the Great Seal. Also medals and maybe some other things.
- seanhunter 2y ago
  > you just have to acknowledge that to anyone outside England, "England" and "the UK" are identical in meaning. I'd love to hear the results of you trying that argument in the rougher parts of, say, Glasgow or Swansea. I suspect if you tried it on the wrong person you'd be picking up your teeth with a broken hand.
  - thaumasiotes 2y ago
    Do you think that makes it less true?
    - seanhunter 2y ago
      Yes. I gave you an example of people outside England who don't think England and the UK are synonymous ie it is a direct refutation. If you had said "Outside the UK" there might be room to say it's a matter of opinion, but since in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the vast majority of people would not say England and the UK are the same, your statement is just flat out obviously wrong.
      - thaumasiotes 2y ago
        But Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland aren't outside England. See the original comment.
    - Earw0rm 2y ago
      In the modern context, /shrug/. When talking about history, absolutely, because we're talking about three or four different countries at the time, with different kings, governments, alliances, economies and so on.
fmajid 2y ago
England was not as overwhelming over Scotland demographically in the past as it is today, and the Scots were eager participants in the colonial venture. In fact, the Act of Union was motivated by the failed Darien Scheme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_...

That doesn't really make sense historically. "The UK" is a modern concept relatively speaking, the Act of Union didn't pass until long after the slaving and looting got going.

thaumasiotes 2y ago

> That doesn't really make sense historically. "The UK" is a modern concept relatively speaking It makes perfect sense; you just have to acknowledge that to anyone outside England, "England" and "the UK" are identical in meaning.

daedalus_f 2y ago
It’s surprising how many people get them mixed up even in the UK. England is one country of the United Kingdom. Scotland, England and Wales make up the island of Great Britain, the largest of the British Isles. The UK also includes Northern Ireland. Hence: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Island. I was confused too, thought that Great Britain referred to the archipelago as a whole (excluding Ireland) rather than the largest island.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  I've seen it stated variously that Little Britain is either Ireland, or Brittany. For a long time I've felt that one of the traditional titles of the Russian czars, "Czar of all the Russias", was cooler than the titles I was aware of for other rulers. I was surprised to find the seal of an English queen on Wikipedia which clearly showed a Latin title translating as "Queen of all the Britains". The switch from "King of Britain" to "King of the Britains" seems to have occurred during the reign of George III, judging by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_Realm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Seal_of_the_Realm . None of those include an "all", but I'm sure it was present in the seal I saw.
  - amenhotep 2y ago
    "Britanniarum omnium"? Present from what I can tell on coins rather than the Great Seal. Also medals and maybe some other things.
seanhunter 2y ago
> you just have to acknowledge that to anyone outside England, "England" and "the UK" are identical in meaning. I'd love to hear the results of you trying that argument in the rougher parts of, say, Glasgow or Swansea. I suspect if you tried it on the wrong person you'd be picking up your teeth with a broken hand.
- thaumasiotes 2y ago
  Do you think that makes it less true?
  - seanhunter 2y ago
    Yes. I gave you an example of people outside England who don't think England and the UK are synonymous ie it is a direct refutation. If you had said "Outside the UK" there might be room to say it's a matter of opinion, but since in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland the vast majority of people would not say England and the UK are the same, your statement is just flat out obviously wrong.
    - thaumasiotes 2y ago
      But Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland aren't outside England. See the original comment.
  - Earw0rm 2y ago
    In the modern context, /shrug/. When talking about history, absolutely, because we're talking about three or four different countries at the time, with different kings, governments, alliances, economies and so on.

fmajid 2y ago

England was not as overwhelming over Scotland demographically in the past as it is today, and the Scots were eager participants in the colonial venture. In fact, the Act of Union was motivated by the failed Darien Scheme: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darien_scheme#Consequences_of_...