4 ms·

You’re going to need a lot more than video analysis and a handful of unverifiable eyewitness testimony (humans are famously fallible) to claim discovery of extr

by nkrisc 2y ago

You’re going to need a lot more than video analysis and a handful of unverifiable eyewitness testimony (humans are famously fallible) to claim discovery of extra-terrestrial life.

matthewdgreen 2y ago
Is anyone serious actually claiming extraterrestrial life is the main concern? My understanding is that the leading concern is some terrestrial military capability we don’t fully understand, but that could pose a military threat to US assets. The goal is to rule that out and then you can worry about aliens afterwards.
- the_af 2y ago
  Unexplained phenomena as secret military tech is not controversial and never has been. It even meshes well with government denials -- of course, if it's an F-117 test during the Cold War or whatever. People have been using this to imply ETs, even in this comments section, and it seems disingenuous to me to pretend otherwise or act surprised. Since forever, the rational explanations for Groom Lake phenomena and similar, after filtering the obvious "bunch of liars trying to sell books", has been "top secret military tech" or "meteorological phenomena". Where's the news in that?
  - matthewdgreen 2y ago
    The news is that the US military is acting very much like they aren’t responsible for recent sightings, and they’re as interested in finding the source as the UFO enthusiasts are. A non-US military with advanced, unexplainable military capabilities (on US soil!) is every bit as interesting a story as actual ETs are.
    - the_af 2y ago
      A non-US actor would be interesting indeed, and it's also more likely than ETs. However, let me point out that this: > The news is that the US military is acting very much like they aren’t responsible for recent sightings ... has multiple prosaic interpretations that are also relatively likely. To name a few: - "The news" is not the US military. You have at least one level of indirection there. - The US military saying something doesn't make it what they truly believe. Disinformation is a real military thing. Even disinformation aimed at a third party (e.g. rival nations who could believe the US military is asking its own population [things]). - Inter-agency rivalry is a thing. Top secret projects may not be known to everyone within a military. - Drones are now widespread, so the US military encouraging the usual UFO believers to be on the lookout may help them spot actual threats. It doesn't have to be anything physics-defying, just true unidentified flying objects. - Finally, though less likely in my opinion, it could be the US military believes in UAPs of physics-defying or even ET origin, but it's just another case of Men Staring at Goats. I mean, in their history they have believed all sorts of kooky things with zero backing evidence.
      - matthewdgreen 2y ago
        The recent interest in UAP phenomena goes well past the news media and has resulted in multiple Congressional hearings and an entirely new DoD office. You’re absolutely right that disinformation and internal confusion are all good explanations for what’s going on now; with that said, if the historical explanation was “the US military covering up its own test aircraft by discrediting witnesses with UFO rumors” it’s a little hard to explain the sudden shift in strategy.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > it’s a little hard to explain the sudden shift in strategy Not really. Adversaries have caught up, with stealthy aircraft and drones. We’re in the “huh, what was that?!” spot the Russians and Chinese and Syrians and whatnot are quite used to being in.
v3ss0n 2y ago
Nobody saying little green man here. Do you actually think you don't have life outside of US?
- nkrisc 2y ago
  Not any life that violates the known laws of physics.
- the_af 2y ago
  Some people in this comments section are implying ETs. Let's be honest here.
PaulRobinson 2y ago
Nobody in official doc is saying it's evidence of ET life. In fact, while evidence of intelligent ET life visiting this planet would be shocking to us a species philosophically, theologically and scientifically, it would in any many ways be better than the hypothesis they are actually trying to prove/disprove: That an adversary has an advanced aircraft that can outrun allied aircraft with ease, and can embed itself into restricted airspace easily, at will, and we don't know what the intentions are. This isn't an experiment in finding ET. This is an experiment in defending national and international airspace from an unknown phenomenon that could be a threat. People hand-waving away the explorations of this stuff has done more harm to national and international security than any other train of thought from the scientific community. We're meant to be interested in learning new things, not just finding things that fit our existing models - especially when that new thing could be a weapon from some unknown adversary. Consider the madness of a Chinese weather balloon not too long ago - why is this somehow not as important?

by nkrisc 2y ago

You’re going to need a lot more than video analysis and a handful of unverifiable eyewitness testimony (humans are famously fallible) to claim discovery of extra-terrestrial life.

matthewdgreen 2y ago

Is anyone serious actually claiming extraterrestrial life is the main concern? My understanding is that the leading concern is some terrestrial military capability we don’t fully understand, but that could pose a military threat to US assets. The goal is to rule that out and then you can worry about aliens afterwards.

the_af 2y ago
Unexplained phenomena as secret military tech is not controversial and never has been. It even meshes well with government denials -- of course, if it's an F-117 test during the Cold War or whatever. People have been using this to imply ETs, even in this comments section, and it seems disingenuous to me to pretend otherwise or act surprised. Since forever, the rational explanations for Groom Lake phenomena and similar, after filtering the obvious "bunch of liars trying to sell books", has been "top secret military tech" or "meteorological phenomena". Where's the news in that?
- matthewdgreen 2y ago
  The news is that the US military is acting very much like they aren’t responsible for recent sightings, and they’re as interested in finding the source as the UFO enthusiasts are. A non-US military with advanced, unexplainable military capabilities (on US soil!) is every bit as interesting a story as actual ETs are.
  - the_af 2y ago
    A non-US actor would be interesting indeed, and it's also more likely than ETs. However, let me point out that this: > The news is that the US military is acting very much like they aren’t responsible for recent sightings ... has multiple prosaic interpretations that are also relatively likely. To name a few: - "The news" is not the US military. You have at least one level of indirection there. - The US military saying something doesn't make it what they truly believe. Disinformation is a real military thing. Even disinformation aimed at a third party (e.g. rival nations who could believe the US military is asking its own population [things]). - Inter-agency rivalry is a thing. Top secret projects may not be known to everyone within a military. - Drones are now widespread, so the US military encouraging the usual UFO believers to be on the lookout may help them spot actual threats. It doesn't have to be anything physics-defying, just true unidentified flying objects. - Finally, though less likely in my opinion, it could be the US military believes in UAPs of physics-defying or even ET origin, but it's just another case of Men Staring at Goats. I mean, in their history they have believed all sorts of kooky things with zero backing evidence.
    - matthewdgreen 2y ago
      The recent interest in UAP phenomena goes well past the news media and has resulted in multiple Congressional hearings and an entirely new DoD office. You’re absolutely right that disinformation and internal confusion are all good explanations for what’s going on now; with that said, if the historical explanation was “the US military covering up its own test aircraft by discrediting witnesses with UFO rumors” it’s a little hard to explain the sudden shift in strategy.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > it’s a little hard to explain the sudden shift in strategy Not really. Adversaries have caught up, with stealthy aircraft and drones. We’re in the “huh, what was that?!” spot the Russians and Chinese and Syrians and whatnot are quite used to being in.

v3ss0n 2y ago

Nobody saying little green man here. Do you actually think you don't have life outside of US?

nkrisc 2y ago
Not any life that violates the known laws of physics.
the_af 2y ago
Some people in this comments section are implying ETs. Let's be honest here.

PaulRobinson 2y ago

Nobody in official doc is saying it's evidence of ET life. In fact, while evidence of intelligent ET life visiting this planet would be shocking to us a species philosophically, theologically and scientifically, it would in any many ways be better than the hypothesis they are actually trying to prove/disprove: That an adversary has an advanced aircraft that can outrun allied aircraft with ease, and can embed itself into restricted airspace easily, at will, and we don't know what the intentions are. This isn't an experiment in finding ET. This is an experiment in defending national and international airspace from an unknown phenomenon that could be a threat. People hand-waving away the explorations of this stuff has done more harm to national and international security than any other train of thought from the scientific community. We're meant to be interested in learning new things, not just finding things that fit our existing models - especially when that new thing could be a weapon from some unknown adversary. Consider the madness of a Chinese weather balloon not too long ago - why is this somehow not as important?