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Well CS and software dev in trenches moved a bit. There are still jobs where people write frameworks, database engines or version control tools. Those jobs req
by ozim 2y ago
Well CS and software dev in trenches moved a bit.
There are still jobs where people write frameworks, database engines or version control tools. Those jobs require heavy CS and algorithms, data structures day to day. But there are less of those jobs nowadays as no one is implementing db engine for their app they just use Postgres.
Other jobs that is vast majority is dealing with implementing business logic. Using database with understanding how it works in details is of course going to produce better outcomes. Yet one still can produce great amount of working software without knowing how indexes are stored on disk.
Also a lot of CS graduates fell into a trap where they think their job is to write a framework - where in reality they should just use frameworks and implement business logic- while using CS background to fully understand frameworks already existing.
- aleph_minus_one 2y ago> while using CS background to fully understand frameworks already existing. Most frameworks today are so complicated that you typically cannot understand them fully, and even understanding them somewhat partially is more than a full-time job.
- hbbio 2y agoLast week, after reading Methodology is bullshit here, this was my first thought! https://x.com/henri__OK/status/1854813243916882365 https://x.com/henri__OK/status/1854813243916882365
- porknubbins 2y agoI wish someone told me this back when I was trying to get a programming job as a self taught programmer. I would do things like try to build a simple React clone thinking it would help me overcome imposter syndrome to fully understand things from the base up, but it was pretty futile because no one really has time to wrap their head around something that big unless they are paid full time to do it.
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- eastbound 2y agoI have a saying that program's complexity is always exactly equal to the human-intelligible complexity + 1. If not, the developer would add one more feature. It is due to the entirely human-made aspect of this discipline.
- apwell23 2y agoi did build a react clone in a long weekend. but I built the first 90% that takes 10% of the time and not the last 10% that takes 90% of time.
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- ozim 2y agoYou don't have to understand them fully to make use of them. One has to understand design patterns and underlying reasoning, understand context of the framework like for example if it is JS framework that it runs in browser to understand which parts are "because we are running in the browser" vs "that is just why framework implemented it" and if it is Typescript then how it blends into that mix. Then for any details or unexpected behavior knowing where to look in documentation.
- Quekid5 2y ago> Yet one still can produce great amount of working software without knowing how indexes are stored on disk. I agree... up to a point. Most software will likely be replaced/obsolete before it even reaches a scale where indexes even matter (at all) given how fast the underlying hardware is at this point. ... but I don't think this is particularly relevant wrt. the "to CS or not CS" question. If a CS grad has been paying any attention they usually have a decent idea of what kinds of problems are intractable vs. problems that are tractable (but maybe expensive to compute) vs. easy. Also just general exposure to different ways to approach solving a problem (logic programming, pure functional, etc.) can be very valuable. There's just much that one couldn't come up with on their own if one weren't exposed to the ideas from the vast expanse of ideas that are known in CS. (And even a master's doesn't come close to scratching the surface of it all.)
- paulddraper 2y agoThat's true, though new technologies -- web browsers, mobile devices -- have necessitated some framework writing.
- gwervc 2y agoSo yes, some people working at Microsoft, Apple and Google wrote those frameworks. But that's like a drop in the bucket.
- paulddraper 2y ago+Meta ;)