4 ms·

I trivialized your comment because it was already trivial. You mentioned some video, but were too lazy to even link to it, much less summarize the main ideas so

I trivialized your comment because it was already trivial. You mentioned some video, but were too lazy to even link to it, much less summarize the main ideas so we could know if it was worth watching or not. I take vitamin-d and melatonin already, and have messed with lamps, early sun, exercise, and tryptophan (and magnesium, and theanine, and dozens of other stuff). All these things together affect my sleep and wake times by maybe 30 minutes. If you really did know about something I haven't read before dozens of times, then at least you could have written a sentence or two about what it is.

rramadass 2y ago
You have completely missed what i was talking about. If you couldn't find some video i mentioned, you should have had the sense to infer that it was maybe linked to in a previous comment in the same chain which is what i had done. Or you could have simply asked for it when i would have readily pointed you to it. As it is you did neither but made a silly comment which is what i called out. All that you mention in your second para are symptomatic treatments but Circadian Research is big picture systems thinking giving you a framework within which you learn to slot your life/treatments. A medicine taken at the wrong time may lose its efficacy. The references given in my previous comments and other comments linked to from some of those give you the Science. Whether you want to read/study those to get more insight into your condition and perhaps work constructively towards a solution is up to you.
- cassianoleal 2y ago
  Let me stop for a second. Let's assume for a minute that the information you're linking us to is in fact excellent and if I peruse the whole protocol I'll eventually adapt myself to a morning routine. Why? Why do I have to do all that? Why do I have to go through all this trouble, spend so much time, and energy and money figuring all this out? What happens until I do eventually figure it all out? Why am I being required to adapt? All I need is to be left alone for maybe another couple hours each morning. That's all. Imagine if the situation was reversed, and you had to work 1h past your bed time. Would you then be looking for multi-intervention protocols to shift your circadian clock forward so you wouldn't be falling asleep during some of your work hours? Would you happily and willingly spend all this time, energy and cash into adapting yourself to this madness? Back to the original problem, I don't think any of this will make a difference. Maybe it will marginally improve the quality of my sleep, but at what cost? My genes are what bias my circadian rhythm that way. Will these interventions permanently alter my gene expression so I don't "fall back" into being a night person again? I doubt so. Which means these interventions will need to become a permanent fixture, causing more stress and giving me yet more work and routines to follow. I really don't see how this can be considered a solution to anything, even if it works - and I honestly cannot see how it would. I would appreciate it if the gaslighting would just stop and we could discuss real ways to deal with the issue - like having more flexible work and life arrangements so different people could exist the way they're meant to.
  - rramadass 2y ago
    I will just make a few final observations and sign off this chain. 1) Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to. 2) I was merely sharing some useful Science which IMO has as yet not seen widespread adoption. 3) Our immediate environment will not change to accommodate our specific needs due to economic concerns. Due to globalized nature of work people are working longer hours and all times whether night or day. If my job which i need for survival needs me to stay awake at night i need to find means to adapt myself to it without ruining my Health. Research is showing more and more that Sleep is foundational to everything else and hence i need to treat it seriously and with high priority. 4) You are making a lot of assumptions/conclusions without having looked into the Science which i think is wrong. While DSPD is a thing it is not fully clear whether there is a genetic component to it. Also Epigenetics is a thing. 5) Finally, if the situation were reversed and i were suffering, i would do everything in my power to study as much as possible on available Science, Traditional Methods of healing etc. to come up with some plan to manage it with/without a doctor. You will find accounts in the popular press of people suffering from something which the doctors could not diagnose properly but they never gave up and kept researching by themselves and trying out new things until something worked for them (usually after consulting with a doctor on it).

rramadass 2y ago

You have completely missed what i was talking about. If you couldn't find some video i mentioned, you should have had the sense to infer that it was maybe linked to in a previous comment in the same chain which is what i had done. Or you could have simply asked for it when i would have readily pointed you to it. As it is you did neither but made a silly comment which is what i called out. All that you mention in your second para are symptomatic treatments but Circadian Research is big picture systems thinking giving you a framework within which you learn to slot your life/treatments. A medicine taken at the wrong time may lose its efficacy. The references given in my previous comments and other comments linked to from some of those give you the Science. Whether you want to read/study those to get more insight into your condition and perhaps work constructively towards a solution is up to you.

cassianoleal 2y ago
Let me stop for a second. Let's assume for a minute that the information you're linking us to is in fact excellent and if I peruse the whole protocol I'll eventually adapt myself to a morning routine. Why? Why do I have to do all that? Why do I have to go through all this trouble, spend so much time, and energy and money figuring all this out? What happens until I do eventually figure it all out? Why am I being required to adapt? All I need is to be left alone for maybe another couple hours each morning. That's all. Imagine if the situation was reversed, and you had to work 1h past your bed time. Would you then be looking for multi-intervention protocols to shift your circadian clock forward so you wouldn't be falling asleep during some of your work hours? Would you happily and willingly spend all this time, energy and cash into adapting yourself to this madness? Back to the original problem, I don't think any of this will make a difference. Maybe it will marginally improve the quality of my sleep, but at what cost? My genes are what bias my circadian rhythm that way. Will these interventions permanently alter my gene expression so I don't "fall back" into being a night person again? I doubt so. Which means these interventions will need to become a permanent fixture, causing more stress and giving me yet more work and routines to follow. I really don't see how this can be considered a solution to anything, even if it works - and I honestly cannot see how it would. I would appreciate it if the gaslighting would just stop and we could discuss real ways to deal with the issue - like having more flexible work and life arrangements so different people could exist the way they're meant to.
- rramadass 2y ago
  I will just make a few final observations and sign off this chain. 1) Nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want to. 2) I was merely sharing some useful Science which IMO has as yet not seen widespread adoption. 3) Our immediate environment will not change to accommodate our specific needs due to economic concerns. Due to globalized nature of work people are working longer hours and all times whether night or day. If my job which i need for survival needs me to stay awake at night i need to find means to adapt myself to it without ruining my Health. Research is showing more and more that Sleep is foundational to everything else and hence i need to treat it seriously and with high priority. 4) You are making a lot of assumptions/conclusions without having looked into the Science which i think is wrong. While DSPD is a thing it is not fully clear whether there is a genetic component to it. Also Epigenetics is a thing. 5) Finally, if the situation were reversed and i were suffering, i would do everything in my power to study as much as possible on available Science, Traditional Methods of healing etc. to come up with some plan to manage it with/without a doctor. You will find accounts in the popular press of people suffering from something which the doctors could not diagnose properly but they never gave up and kept researching by themselves and trying out new things until something worked for them (usually after consulting with a doctor on it).