5 ms·

> But how are we ever supposed to talk about reality if we can't even agree what counts? One of my tactics here is to refuse to discuss politics at all, but to

> But how are we ever supposed to talk about reality if we can't even agree what counts? One of my tactics here is to refuse to discuss politics at all, but to encourage any/all discussion of economics and philosophy. One effect of this is to remove lots of trigger words and names, which helps those who feel persecuted or embattled to take a step back. Another effect is you get a much more clear perspective on how they actually operate wrt to belief and evidence. If you find an economic or philosophical/ethical/moral POV that’s directly contradicting a persons stated political views, don’t just leap on the opportunity to point it out. First realize that the person you’re talking to is probably in a significant amount of psychic pain already from shouldering this kind of cognitive dissonance for decades. Activate your compassion/empathy. This way you can twist the knife better when you do leap on the hypocrisy to try and kill it! Soon you’ll have no friends left and that solves the problem of dealing with political discussions

smeej 2y ago
This took a turn that feels inevitable now that I see it, but I did not see coming, and made me laugh out loud. Thanks for this!
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
My best friend recently said microeconomics is "bullshit" and I don't know how to handle that. I take it for granted, like algebra, it's like saying gravity is bullshit. What other model is there? They didn't propose one. > Soon you’ll have no friends At the rate I'm going. Of course this could all be fallout from the biggest Shiri's Scissor ever fired, hitting the US.
- hammock 2y ago
  >What other model is there? They didn't propose one. Start with Praxeology (the methodology of Austrian economics). Specifically, Mises’ Human Action. The simple axiom that all preferences are subjective instantly eliminates a lot of the foundation of micro (and macro) economics as it is typically taught today.
  - gradschoolfail 2y ago
    In other words, “All preferences are subjective but some ikigais locally align (or at least have positive inner product*)” ? In yet further words, Each of us would like to find our ikigai-trading neighbors so as to figure out the pareto-optimal way to move forward in cluster[-fuck]s [for that profane diversity-curious outsider take] *i see that theHeisenberg uncertainty principle was codependency injected[0] into section 5[1] — a negative example of the very point? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Action#Summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Action#Summary [1] 5 Causality as a requirement for human action
    - selfhoster11 2y ago
      I had to have an LLM explain this to me what in the world this comment means, but I take it as a positive. Every day is a school day, and I'm glad I don't need to do two hours of background reading to decode this to my satisfaction.
    - 082349872349872 2y ago
      https://cdn.mises.org/Human%20Action_3.pdf https://cdn.mises.org/Human%20Action_3.pdf p139, under slight substitution (keeping in mind that Mises wrote in 1940) > The accomplishment gratifies [the grad student] neither mediately nor immediately. It does not gratify him mediately because his fellow men at best are unconcerned about it, more often even greet it with taunts, sneers, and persecution. Many a [grad student] could have used his gifts to render his life agreeable and joyful*; he did not even consider such a possibility and chose the thorny path without hesitation. The [grad student] wants to accomplish what he considers his mission, even if he knows that he moves toward his own disaster. see also footnote 23? (would Rao call Mises' geniuses Clueless or Losers?) * it furthers the great man to enjoy the life of the sage?
      - gradschoolfail 2y ago
        I do respectfully interpret {pg,tlb,rtm} as preferring to become genius hunters that fail well to remaining grad students that succeed badly.. (Thanks for reminding me of the cases of Niedermeyer and Takesaki, more appropriate to remember as them grad students rather than geniuses?) Albeit the more apt metaproblem would be the one of enabling these “grad students” to hunt “genius projects” in teams. not sure if YC itself was meant to be this kind of genius project— i cant tell if that project proved its salt by seducing the {OGs} with a barrage of noble, monastic yet fecund suffering… perhaps not, since they kinda moved on to comfortable spiessig lives (as have their successors, mostly) :::: vM (good or bad faith?) sidestepped the “Rao Normalization” issue by citing only nonSTEM “geniuses”, YC embraced 2 rounds of “Rao Normalization”: “finding our ikigai by hiring G/GS to find what pple want”
- mihaic 2y ago
  > I take it for granted, like algebra, it's like saying gravity is bullshit. What other model is there? I somewhat relate to their position. Something can be probably wrong, even if no better alternative can be proposed. I haven't seen a case in my personal life where the laws of gravity are off by any observable amount. Microeconomic rules felt broken at times. Maybe no economic model works on everything in advance, and you'd need to first deeply understand situations before actually picking an abstraction, to minimize the denaturation of reality.
eevilspock 2y ago
> Soon you’ll have no friends left This dynamic far outweighs factors like moral and intellectual honesty. Humans want to be a part of a tribe and be respected within it far more than they want to do the right thing or be honest.

smeej 2y ago

This took a turn that feels inevitable now that I see it, but I did not see coming, and made me laugh out loud. Thanks for this!

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago

My best friend recently said microeconomics is "bullshit" and I don't know how to handle that. I take it for granted, like algebra, it's like saying gravity is bullshit. What other model is there? They didn't propose one. > Soon you’ll have no friends At the rate I'm going. Of course this could all be fallout from the biggest Shiri's Scissor ever fired, hitting the US.

hammock 2y ago
>What other model is there? They didn't propose one. Start with Praxeology (the methodology of Austrian economics). Specifically, Mises’ Human Action. The simple axiom that all preferences are subjective instantly eliminates a lot of the foundation of micro (and macro) economics as it is typically taught today.
- gradschoolfail 2y ago
  In other words, “All preferences are subjective but some ikigais locally align (or at least have positive inner product*)” ? In yet further words, Each of us would like to find our ikigai-trading neighbors so as to figure out the pareto-optimal way to move forward in cluster[-fuck]s [for that profane diversity-curious outsider take] *i see that theHeisenberg uncertainty principle was codependency injected[0] into section 5[1] — a negative example of the very point? [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Action#Summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Action#Summary [1] 5 Causality as a requirement for human action
  - selfhoster11 2y ago
    I had to have an LLM explain this to me what in the world this comment means, but I take it as a positive. Every day is a school day, and I'm glad I don't need to do two hours of background reading to decode this to my satisfaction.
  - 082349872349872 2y ago
    https://cdn.mises.org/Human%20Action_3.pdf https://cdn.mises.org/Human%20Action_3.pdf p139, under slight substitution (keeping in mind that Mises wrote in 1940) > The accomplishment gratifies [the grad student] neither mediately nor immediately. It does not gratify him mediately because his fellow men at best are unconcerned about it, more often even greet it with taunts, sneers, and persecution. Many a [grad student] could have used his gifts to render his life agreeable and joyful*; he did not even consider such a possibility and chose the thorny path without hesitation. The [grad student] wants to accomplish what he considers his mission, even if he knows that he moves toward his own disaster. see also footnote 23? (would Rao call Mises' geniuses Clueless or Losers?) * it furthers the great man to enjoy the life of the sage?
    - gradschoolfail 2y ago
      I do respectfully interpret {pg,tlb,rtm} as preferring to become genius hunters that fail well to remaining grad students that succeed badly.. (Thanks for reminding me of the cases of Niedermeyer and Takesaki, more appropriate to remember as them grad students rather than geniuses?) Albeit the more apt metaproblem would be the one of enabling these “grad students” to hunt “genius projects” in teams. not sure if YC itself was meant to be this kind of genius project— i cant tell if that project proved its salt by seducing the {OGs} with a barrage of noble, monastic yet fecund suffering… perhaps not, since they kinda moved on to comfortable spiessig lives (as have their successors, mostly) :::: vM (good or bad faith?) sidestepped the “Rao Normalization” issue by citing only nonSTEM “geniuses”, YC embraced 2 rounds of “Rao Normalization”: “finding our ikigai by hiring G/GS to find what pple want”
mihaic 2y ago
> I take it for granted, like algebra, it's like saying gravity is bullshit. What other model is there? I somewhat relate to their position. Something can be probably wrong, even if no better alternative can be proposed. I haven't seen a case in my personal life where the laws of gravity are off by any observable amount. Microeconomic rules felt broken at times. Maybe no economic model works on everything in advance, and you'd need to first deeply understand situations before actually picking an abstraction, to minimize the denaturation of reality.

eevilspock 2y ago

> Soon you’ll have no friends left This dynamic far outweighs factors like moral and intellectual honesty. Humans want to be a part of a tribe and be respected within it far more than they want to do the right thing or be honest.