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Does a person self-diagnose as Black? Jewish? Indigenous? Being gay? Your attempt at nuanced discussion falls apart when the context is about whether people sh

Does a person self-diagnose as Black? Jewish? Indigenous? Being gay? Your attempt at nuanced discussion falls apart when the context is about whether people should be expected to stay somewhere by "blocking and moving on" comments suggesting they go cease existing. What you're failing to recognize (to a point that at least appears bad faith) is that it is the extremes here.

lolinder 2y ago
> What you're failing to recognize (to a point that at least appears bad faith) is that it is the extremes here. This is exactly what I'm warning against. Refusing to see that it's not that simple is why Trump's anti-trans smear campaign works so well. The best thing we can do for trans rights is acknowledge that we recognize it as a complicated issue that needs to be worked through carefully, but internet rhetoric invariably breaks it down into extremes. Given two extremes as the only options, we shouldn't be surprised when people pick the one we wouldn't prefer. My comments here will be labeled transphobic by a lot of people, to the point where if I weren't writing under a pseudonym I wouldn't write them at all. Never mind that I'm an ally—the fact that I'm the kind of ally that calls out a counterproductive theory of change for what it is makes me an enemy in the current environment, and that is why we're seeing a regression on the national level. Cassandras like me have been warning about this for years now, and it's high time we're heard rather than pushed out of the tent.
- BeefWellington 2y ago
  I don't think you get to decide if you qualify as an ally, and that's maybe part of the problem here. There are a lot of well-meaning well-intentioned people who do great harm. The adage "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" exists as an observation of this.
  - lolinder 2y ago
    Agreed. A lot of people call themselves allies while actively sabotaging relationships with the 60% of the population that they need to get on board with change to actually make a difference. We just got a very visceral illustration of the harm that that kind of ally with good intentions has caused. I've done more to advance LGBT acceptance by quietly listening to people in deep red states and then (after listening to them!) helping them to see the other perspective than 100 internet commenters raging about how everything comes down to extremes. You can label me whatever you like, but I'm going to keep up my approach, because it's obvious that the mainstream left's approach is a total failure.

lolinder 2y ago

> What you're failing to recognize (to a point that at least appears bad faith) is that it is the extremes here. This is exactly what I'm warning against. Refusing to see that it's not that simple is why Trump's anti-trans smear campaign works so well. The best thing we can do for trans rights is acknowledge that we recognize it as a complicated issue that needs to be worked through carefully, but internet rhetoric invariably breaks it down into extremes. Given two extremes as the only options, we shouldn't be surprised when people pick the one we wouldn't prefer. My comments here will be labeled transphobic by a lot of people, to the point where if I weren't writing under a pseudonym I wouldn't write them at all. Never mind that I'm an ally—the fact that I'm the kind of ally that calls out a counterproductive theory of change for what it is makes me an enemy in the current environment, and that is why we're seeing a regression on the national level. Cassandras like me have been warning about this for years now, and it's high time we're heard rather than pushed out of the tent.

BeefWellington 2y ago
I don't think you get to decide if you qualify as an ally, and that's maybe part of the problem here. There are a lot of well-meaning well-intentioned people who do great harm. The adage "the path to hell is paved with good intentions" exists as an observation of this.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Agreed. A lot of people call themselves allies while actively sabotaging relationships with the 60% of the population that they need to get on board with change to actually make a difference. We just got a very visceral illustration of the harm that that kind of ally with good intentions has caused. I've done more to advance LGBT acceptance by quietly listening to people in deep red states and then (after listening to them!) helping them to see the other perspective than 100 internet commenters raging about how everything comes down to extremes. You can label me whatever you like, but I'm going to keep up my approach, because it's obvious that the mainstream left's approach is a total failure.