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I would argue that people in academia or other tightly coupled bubbles where your career and thus well-being are far more reliant on how your peers evaluate you

I would argue that people in academia or other tightly coupled bubbles where your career and thus well-being are far more reliant on how your peers evaluate you (especially in humanities where peer reviews are nearly the sole factor of success) is far more tribalist than a typical blue-collar or office environment. https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/how-dumb-ideas-capture-smart-and https://www.robkhenderson.com/p/how-dumb-ideas-capture-smart...

calf 2y ago
That's just a lot of words to dismiss academia as an ivory tower, and to ad hominem leftism as being part of the ivory tower, which is a bad argument. It is true that the academic clerisy is a problem and a few leftists actually argue that this social class is a block on social progress. However, sometimes their ideas are right, ranging from the sciences to social justice issues, such as racism and sexism and so on.
- z3ncyberpunk 2y ago
  Sometimes their ideas may be right, but it is no less of an elitist, pretentious, ego-inflated ivory tower.
- DirkH 2y ago
  Nothing they said dismisses academia as an ivory tower anymore than anyone pointing out how ridiculously pervasive the replication crisis is dismisses academia or ad hominems leftism as untrustworthy. There is no need to be defensive when how perverse the incentive structure for academia is, is pointed out. You can be a diehard leftist and also hate the present day institutions of academia.
  - calf 2y ago
    Disagree, previous commenter specifically said - paraphrase - "Academia (researchers) is MORE tribal (≈ incentive structured) than companies (office and blue-collar workers)". This specific, comparative argument is used by industry and conservatives to undermine academics and progressives, it is very prevalent on Hacker News when they shit on academics. It has zero to do with the replication crisis which you mentioned, or "publish-or-perish", or the neoliberalization of academia - which as an ex-academic leftist I am very well aware of and have been materially harmed by it. There is a nuanced distinction between the two forms of argument. The former is a prevalent bad take on Hacker News by folks who unilaterally shit on academia, saying things like "industry is actually more innovative" and other half-baked nonsense like that.

calf 2y ago

That's just a lot of words to dismiss academia as an ivory tower, and to ad hominem leftism as being part of the ivory tower, which is a bad argument. It is true that the academic clerisy is a problem and a few leftists actually argue that this social class is a block on social progress. However, sometimes their ideas are right, ranging from the sciences to social justice issues, such as racism and sexism and so on.

z3ncyberpunk 2y ago
Sometimes their ideas may be right, but it is no less of an elitist, pretentious, ego-inflated ivory tower.
DirkH 2y ago
Nothing they said dismisses academia as an ivory tower anymore than anyone pointing out how ridiculously pervasive the replication crisis is dismisses academia or ad hominems leftism as untrustworthy. There is no need to be defensive when how perverse the incentive structure for academia is, is pointed out. You can be a diehard leftist and also hate the present day institutions of academia.
- calf 2y ago
  Disagree, previous commenter specifically said - paraphrase - "Academia (researchers) is MORE tribal (≈ incentive structured) than companies (office and blue-collar workers)". This specific, comparative argument is used by industry and conservatives to undermine academics and progressives, it is very prevalent on Hacker News when they shit on academics. It has zero to do with the replication crisis which you mentioned, or "publish-or-perish", or the neoliberalization of academia - which as an ex-academic leftist I am very well aware of and have been materially harmed by it. There is a nuanced distinction between the two forms of argument. The former is a prevalent bad take on Hacker News by folks who unilaterally shit on academia, saying things like "industry is actually more innovative" and other half-baked nonsense like that.