3 ms·

I have done all that, so IMO GP is really not trivialising anything. This is about the same we've been hearing for years. If you want to know the effect of tho

I have done all that, so IMO GP is really not trivialising anything. This is about the same we've been hearing for years. If you want to know the effect of those "fixes" on the wrong person, re-read my big text. I've done it all. The "fix" only makes me sleepy early enough for the first or second night of a roughly weekly cycle. It also means a night with enough hours but not enough quality of sleep. > Most of these practices are zero-cost and risk-free They are really not. I went through a lot of issues for trying them. I nearly lost a job once, and I have missed social gatherings as I had to recover sleep in the weekend. Moreover, where I live now, I don't have the option of morning sunlight for a few months each year as there is none. In fact, there are whole days with so much grey and darkness that my body basically thinks it's always time to sleep so not easily adjustable either.

rramadass 2y ago
I did read all your detailed comments. They only mentioned time cycles but no other details. The reason i linked to couple of my previous comments is because i listed more details there to think about and investigate. For example, i list Diet and separately also Gut Health to consider. One of the key neurotransmitters affecting sleep is Serotonin which we now know to be mostly produced in the intestines. The Gut and Enteric Nervous System are known as "The Second Brain" (see book of the same name by Michael Gershon) and can act independently of the central nervous system. So one cause might be your gut is not producing enough Serotonin. On the Diet side Serotonin is made from Tryptophan so another cause might be your diet does not contain enough Tryptophan. For the lack of natural sunlight (SAD is well known) you might want to consider Vitamin-D and Melatonin supplements (but only after consulting with a doctor) and use one of those fancy lamps that mimic sunlight frequency ranges. As i pointed out, Circadian science is holistic so you need to take various factors into account both individually and in combinations to narrow down the problem. There are various scenarios to try out and see what makes a significant difference. While the science is solid the nuances are very important to consider.
- lostdog 2y ago
  I trivialized your comment because it was already trivial. You mentioned some video, but were too lazy to even link to it, much less summarize the main ideas so we could know if it was worth watching or not. I take vitamin-d and melatonin already, and have messed with lamps, early sun, exercise, and tryptophan (and magnesium, and theanine, and dozens of other stuff). All these things together affect my sleep and wake times by maybe 30 minutes. If you really did know about something I haven't read before dozens of times, then at least you could have written a sentence or two about what it is.
  - rramadass 2y ago
    You have completely missed what i was talking about. If you couldn't find some video i mentioned, you should have had the sense to infer that it was maybe linked to in a previous comment in the same chain which is what i had done. Or you could have simply asked for it when i would have readily pointed you to it. As it is you did neither but made a silly comment which is what i called out. All that you mention in your second para are symptomatic treatments but Circadian Research is big picture systems thinking giving you a framework within which you learn to slot your life/treatments. A medicine taken at the wrong time may lose its efficacy. The references given in my previous comments and other comments linked to from some of those give you the Science. Whether you want to read/study those to get more insight into your condition and perhaps work constructively towards a solution is up to you.
    - cassianoleal 2y ago
      Let me stop for a second. Let's assume for a minute that the information you're linking us to is in fact excellent and if I peruse the whole protocol I'll eventually adapt myself to a morning routine. Why? Why do I have to do all that? Why do I have to go through all this trouble, spend so much time, and energy and money figuring all this out? What happens until I do eventually figure it all out? Why am I being required to adapt? All I need is to be left alone for maybe another couple hours each morning. That's all. Imagine if the situation was reversed, and you had to work 1h past your bed time. Would you then be looking for multi-intervention protocols to shift your circadian clock forward so you wouldn't be falling asleep during some of your work hours? Would you happily and willingly spend all this time, energy and cash into adapting yourself to this madness? Back to the original problem, I don't think any of this will make a difference. Maybe it will marginally improve the quality of my sleep, but at what cost? My genes are what bias my circadian rhythm that way. Will these interventions permanently alter my gene expression so I don't "fall back" into being a night person again? I doubt so. Which means these interventions will need to become a permanent fixture, causing more stress and giving me yet more work and routines to follow. I really don't see how this can be considered a solution to anything, even if it works - and I honestly cannot see how it would. I would appreciate it if the gaslighting would just stop and we could discuss real ways to deal with the issue - like having more flexible work and life arrangements so different people could exist the way they're meant to.

rramadass 2y ago

I did read all your detailed comments. They only mentioned time cycles but no other details. The reason i linked to couple of my previous comments is because i listed more details there to think about and investigate. For example, i list Diet and separately also Gut Health to consider. One of the key neurotransmitters affecting sleep is Serotonin which we now know to be mostly produced in the intestines. The Gut and Enteric Nervous System are known as "The Second Brain" (see book of the same name by Michael Gershon) and can act independently of the central nervous system. So one cause might be your gut is not producing enough Serotonin. On the Diet side Serotonin is made from Tryptophan so another cause might be your diet does not contain enough Tryptophan. For the lack of natural sunlight (SAD is well known) you might want to consider Vitamin-D and Melatonin supplements (but only after consulting with a doctor) and use one of those fancy lamps that mimic sunlight frequency ranges. As i pointed out, Circadian science is holistic so you need to take various factors into account both individually and in combinations to narrow down the problem. There are various scenarios to try out and see what makes a significant difference. While the science is solid the nuances are very important to consider.

lostdog 2y ago
I trivialized your comment because it was already trivial. You mentioned some video, but were too lazy to even link to it, much less summarize the main ideas so we could know if it was worth watching or not. I take vitamin-d and melatonin already, and have messed with lamps, early sun, exercise, and tryptophan (and magnesium, and theanine, and dozens of other stuff). All these things together affect my sleep and wake times by maybe 30 minutes. If you really did know about something I haven't read before dozens of times, then at least you could have written a sentence or two about what it is.
- rramadass 2y ago
  You have completely missed what i was talking about. If you couldn't find some video i mentioned, you should have had the sense to infer that it was maybe linked to in a previous comment in the same chain which is what i had done. Or you could have simply asked for it when i would have readily pointed you to it. As it is you did neither but made a silly comment which is what i called out. All that you mention in your second para are symptomatic treatments but Circadian Research is big picture systems thinking giving you a framework within which you learn to slot your life/treatments. A medicine taken at the wrong time may lose its efficacy. The references given in my previous comments and other comments linked to from some of those give you the Science. Whether you want to read/study those to get more insight into your condition and perhaps work constructively towards a solution is up to you.
  - cassianoleal 2y ago
    Let me stop for a second. Let's assume for a minute that the information you're linking us to is in fact excellent and if I peruse the whole protocol I'll eventually adapt myself to a morning routine. Why? Why do I have to do all that? Why do I have to go through all this trouble, spend so much time, and energy and money figuring all this out? What happens until I do eventually figure it all out? Why am I being required to adapt? All I need is to be left alone for maybe another couple hours each morning. That's all. Imagine if the situation was reversed, and you had to work 1h past your bed time. Would you then be looking for multi-intervention protocols to shift your circadian clock forward so you wouldn't be falling asleep during some of your work hours? Would you happily and willingly spend all this time, energy and cash into adapting yourself to this madness? Back to the original problem, I don't think any of this will make a difference. Maybe it will marginally improve the quality of my sleep, but at what cost? My genes are what bias my circadian rhythm that way. Will these interventions permanently alter my gene expression so I don't "fall back" into being a night person again? I doubt so. Which means these interventions will need to become a permanent fixture, causing more stress and giving me yet more work and routines to follow. I really don't see how this can be considered a solution to anything, even if it works - and I honestly cannot see how it would. I would appreciate it if the gaslighting would just stop and we could discuss real ways to deal with the issue - like having more flexible work and life arrangements so different people could exist the way they're meant to.