5 ms·

Yggdrasil Network

324 points by BSDobelix 2y ago

poincaredisk 2y ago
>Yggdrasil is a new experimental compact routing scheme Not that new anymore, right? It's at least 6 years old.
- 1oooqooq 2y ago
  is anything using something similar?
  - jeanlucas 2y ago
    by the original comment logic, everything that is older than 1 moment is not new anymore
    - poincaredisk 2y ago
      I wrote my comment, because I had to recheck if this is the same Yggdrassil I've read about 5 years ago. When I read about a new thing I also wonder will it be more popular in the future, and knowing it's already many years old reduces the chance of explosive growth in the future. At some point things just... stop being new.
      - jeanlucas 2y ago
        I didn't mean to be mean to you, but in terms of network protocols something can be a new approach for a while, especially if others are still trying out. What is it compared to? TCP/IP is past 50 years old. Then again, I agree with you: it wasn't created yesterday.
fred_is_fred 2y ago
I get why the name was used but if you start a project that you want to be heavily adopted, please pick a simpler name. The complexity of spelling or pronouncing this for most people creates an actual barrier to adoption. MP3 was easy to say and tell your friends about, Ogg Vorbis was not.
- opan 2y ago
  Ogg Vorbis seems very pronounceable to me, and without an obvious wrong way to say it, using an english language perspective. Yggdrasil is a wild one, though, agreed. Better a unique name than another thing called Gemini or Atom or something, though.
  - majoe 2y ago
    The English language has the habit of taking perfectly fine Latin words and pronounce them in the most unintuitive way. Gemini is actually a good example, I rather take Yggdrasil.
  - NemoNobody 2y ago
    No, Fred is right - it would better if it was atom or gemini, that's literally what he is saying. Yggdrasil - I just had to type the entire word out and even then autocorrect didn't tell me I had a word. I think the Mp3 vs Ogg Vorbis is perfect analogy. Tbh, I wouldn't use a Scandinavian language word for a global application as it will automatically frustrate any English as a second language users - the words defy practically all rules of English, they frustrate me even as no matter if I can read them, I often have no idea how to pronounce them unless I've already heard them said. This is one of those words I encountered many times before I first heard it said and actually knew how to say it. Fred is right 100
    - NemoNobody 2y ago
      Haha, I just realized I actually have used a Scandinavian word in an app I intended for global use - I just respelled the word so that it made sense in English.
    - anotherhue 2y ago
      To give a contrary opinion I think it's a beautiful world and an excellent gateway to one of our greatest mythologies. "The World Tree" is an aspect of human literary history. I'm not an ESL so I can only imagine the difficulties but I do not think we should be robbing the world of beauty, history and nuance for the sake of business English. Few English speakers can spell or pronounce it correctly so it even becomes a shared difficulty. Fun fact: several names of days of the week come from Norse mythology. Look up the names of the months if you want something more modern.
linsomniac 2y ago
I was pretty excited about it 3-4 years ago, but it seems like it's kind of an abandoned project at this point. Anyone making use of it and have any impressions?
- DanAtC 2y ago
  There have been a few updates recently including a revival of the iOS app which had languished for some time. I use it as a VPN to connect my phone to my home network which are both peered privately to a VPS. It's a bit convoluted vs directly connecting to home, but it was easier to set up than worrying about dynamic IPs, port forwarding, and exchanging Wireguard keys. Multicast peering is neat in that I can access my home server directly using the same Ygg IP when I'm home. Problem is, I have to use an IP; the iOS app doesn't support configuring a custom DNS server for the Ygg VPN connection. Headscale is really a better solution for this use-case, but it's kind-of neat to know there's an alternative Internet available with just an additional peering.
  - sunshine-o 2y ago
    Using Yggdrasil as a mesh VPN for your devices could be a great use case. From a quick search it seems you do not even need a static IP address [0] I am not familiar with Yggdrasil and can't wrap my hear around how this is possible ! - [0] https://lemmy.sdf.org/comment/472679 https://lemmy.sdf.org/comment/472679
    - scottyeager 2y ago
      To join the larger public Yggdrasil network, you need to peer with at least one publicly reachable node. Most likely that machine has a static IPv4 address. There are a number of such nodes operated by volunteers, and they enable the magic that allows any device to join the network and immediately start receiving inbound traffic from the rest of the network. By opening an outbound connection to the public node, a channel is created for traffic to flow back to the non public node.
    - ravenstine 2y ago
hahajk 2y ago
Ok, so as I understand it, yggdrasil and cjdns are virtual P2P networks that offer the normal layer 3 routing services, but built on top of the existing internet. So they still require ISPs and internet backbones, etc. Are there any projects attempting to build a worldwide P2P network that can replace the IP layer? Like a mesh network that can operate without verizon, cisco routers, etc? I know of some mesh network technologies aimed at small disconnected networks but nothing consumer-facing and supporting anything more than a few thousand nodes.
- dartos 2y ago
  There’s meshtastic, but it’s not a full internet stack replacement iirc
  - prurigro 2y ago
    It can do tcp/ip, but it's extremely slow. Like 5+ seconds for a character to appear over ssh with a direct connection.
- u8080 2y ago
  There was cjdroute project with own OpenWRT-based Yggdrasil firmware for routers. But it seems failed to gain traction and died - https://habr.com/ru/companies/cjdns/articles/198428/ https://habr.com/ru/companies/cjdns/articles/198428/ [in Russian]
- prussia 2y ago
  reticulum.network perhaps? It certainly fits the "replace the IP layer" requirement, and I believe in theory it can be very large scale, though unsure how it would do in reality.
- fragmede 2y ago
  It's a very romantic notion, but there's a lot of resources (time/money/hardware/effort) that go into the existing IP layer that's totally invisible. Without a plan on how to supplant those resources, any replacement network will struggle.
PhilipRoman 2y ago
I really like the idea of address being derived from public key, but there is a problem with this approach - since Yggdrasil currently uses IPv6 addresses, the length is very limited and you can find collisions (there is a workaround which involves brute forcing a key with more leading bits). As I understand, the long term plan is adding a custom protocol which has no limits for address length.
- Retr0id 2y ago
  My napkin math says it'd be plausible to generate a pair of colliding addresses (birthday paradox etc.), but still implausible to collide with the set of existing in-use addresses. How much would the former actually matter, in the context of Yggdrasil?
- numberless 2y ago
  Why not use the entire public key and let entropy do the rest, like the Reticulum Network?
- neilalexander 2y ago
  Truncating the public key to fit in an IPv6 address isn’t totally ideal, agreed, but for now it means that just about any existing IPv6-capable application will work over Yggdrasil without modification, which is a nice property for a testnet.
  - Retr0id 2y ago
    What about truncating a hash of the whole public key? (what's what I'd assumed was happening already)
numberless 2y ago
Something else in this space includes the Reticulum Network Stack https://reticulum.network/ https://reticulum.network/
foundry27 2y ago
The first thing I tried to find on their website and their GitHub was a protocol specification, to be able to implement it independently from the reference implementation. I thought this would be straightforward since it’s advertised as a scheme/protocol, but such a spec isn’t referenced anywhere! Digging on my own I eventually found [1] on a side-branch of one of their other GitHub projects. Kudos to the author: I think it actually covers a lot of what you’d need to know: crypto identities, message formats, wire protocols, peering and stream semantics, spanning tree updates and root selection, the DHT, forwarding logic, sessions, etc. A couple things are TODOs like how to verify and sign root updates, and there’s some ambiguity in the tiebreaker algorithm for next-hop selection. It seems to be very tightly coupled to TCP as the transport layer though, since all packets need to be delivered reliably and in the order they were sent, and need to be capable of being fragmented into smaller packets for varying MTU sizes. [1] https://github.com/yggdrasil-network/yggdrasil-specs/blob/ys001/ys001-yggdrasil-core-specification.md https://github.com/yggdrasil-network/yggdrasil-specs/blob/ys...
- neilalexander 2y ago
  We did spend a little bit of time documenting the earlier v0.3 protocol, as you have linked, but the protocol has changed significantly in design twice since then. v0.4 changed the DHT quite a bit and v0.5 removed the DHT altogether. As a research project it likely will continue to change until we settle on a design we are happier with, at which point we will definitely spend more time documenting it. The need for ordered/reliable links is mostly for convenience of development at this stage, but that can be fixed for sure.
  - Rhapso 2y ago
    Look at https://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.06461 https://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.06461 if you want to try a chord dht again. Kademlia is a lot less intuitive, but by not ever assuming it's tables are correct, it handles and corrects inconsistency (and malicious nodes) better. Chapter 6 of this pile of (my) crap https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cs_diss/106/ https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cs_diss/106/ talks about doing latency optimization on dht routing. Basically just embedding then network graph into a metric space.
A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago
FAQ >> Is Yggdrasil anonymous? No, it is not a goal of the Yggdrasil project to provide anonymity. I understand that the problem is hard, has its own set of issues to solve beyond just technical, but this honestly makes it a non-starter for me. Anything that would be an actual internet evolution would need to include actual anonymity. Apart from this, I simply do not see what problem it actually solves for the existing internet that is not already solved with the current setup.
- neilalexander 2y ago
  Anonymity isn’t a goal for Yggdrasil anymore than it is a goal for for BGP, OSPF, BATMAN etc. Anonymous networks also generally have very high costs/overheads as they often engineer long and indirect paths for obscurity. See the generally poor performance/reliability of Tor circuits for an example of why we probably wouldn’t want the entire Internet to work this way.
- ravenstine 2y ago
  Why? I think it makes perfect sense to focus on a mesh routing protocol and make anonymity something optional that you can lay on top of it. No reason you can't run a Yggdrasil network and have an I2P network within it. This way there isn't as much of a performance hit for communications that don't call for anonymity, and anonymous peers can be established without being on the clearnet.
- cma 2y ago
  Optimized latency can deanonymize, so better to layer anonymization on top.
pjmlp 2y ago
And me thinking it was a Linux distribution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X
omani 2y ago
something else in this space includes (New Kind of Network) NKN. (https://nkn.org https://nkn.org)
jcmontx 2y ago
I don't know a lot about networking. Where does this stand in the networking layers? Transport? Network?
myspeed 2y ago
Sounds like Teredo tunnels which was part of Windows 7. It builds ipv6 tunnel over ipv4 and assigns a global IPv6 address to Windows machines. But these tunnels were later removed from Windows 10.
varunnrao 2y ago
This is not a technical point but does anyone know which font was used to typeset the logo? It looks really nice and clean.
epapsiou 2y ago
50 comments and no one mentioned Treeship or Hyperion!!
- gautamcgoel 2y ago
  Yeah, this is what I was thinking! The Templars would be so disappointed...
block_dagger 2y ago
Came in thinking this was an extension for the game Valheim. Different yggdrasil apparently.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  Yggdrasill is a name from Norse mythology. It's the tree along which the nine worlds were believed to exist.
dang 2y ago
Related: Yggdrasil Network - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41669625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41669625 - Sept 2024 (3 comments) Yggdrasil P2P mesh E2EE IPv6 network - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30156551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30156551 - Jan 2022 (77 comments) Yggdrasil – Early-stage implementation of an end-to-end encrypted IPv6 network - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27577201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27577201 - June 2021 (102 comments) Show HN: Yggdrasil Network – compact mesh routing experiment for mesh networks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18863554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18863554 - Jan 2019 (15 comments) Announcing Yggdrasil Network v0.3 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18751991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18751991 - Dec 2018 (3 comments) Yggdrasil: End-To-end Encrypted IPv6 Networking - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18666245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18666245 - Dec 2018 (1 comment)
coppsilgold 2y ago
If you want an actual mesh p2p IP-network that can punch through firewalls/NATs you can use Tailscale/Headscale If you want a crypto-key addressable p2p connection-network there is a somewhat recent project which does this rather well: https://www.iroh.computer https://www.iroh.computer It punches through firewalls/NATs and establishes QUIC connections. They have two already useful PoC's: https://github.com/n0-computer/sendme https://github.com/n0-computer/sendme https://github.com/n0-computer/dumbpipe https://github.com/n0-computer/dumbpipe
- xrd 2y ago
  I was about to ask this question. Why would someone use yggdrasil over tailscale or wireguard? Is there any benefit? If I'm just trying to run my own private lightweight VPN, tailscale (and headscale if I want to self host the network) works great and offers so many benefits.
  - dinosaurdynasty 2y ago
    In practice I find it stupidly reliable, and use it to reconfigure/fix WireGuard issues remotely (I had to fix the MTU once on hotel Wi-Fi). It's also completely open source, unlike tailscale. And something's that cool is that Yggdrasil can automatically peer over "unconfigured" layer 2 links so if you have a complex topology (like an actual mesh) it can be useful for that. It's also stupidly simple to set up Yggdrasil in a dual WAN environment, which is nice.
beeflet 2y ago
Still reading about this. Something strange is that ygg addresses are made to fit in ipv6 using the hash of a pubkey. How does vanity mining lead to any security benefit? Why not just make a new TLD like .onion or .i2p and use base32?
zoobab 2y ago
I used Onioncat, an IPv6 network over TOR: https://github.com/rahra/onioncat https://github.com/rahra/onioncat
barberpole 2y ago
I thought this was going to be about Yggdrasil. Why must every name in the world be destroyed by software labellers?
ilynd 2y ago
I'm quite surprised about the number of times I've seen the world 'yggdrasil'.
adusinli2018 2y ago
[dead]

Yggdrasil Network

324 points by BSDobelix 2y ago

poincaredisk 2y ago

>Yggdrasil is a new experimental compact routing scheme Not that new anymore, right? It's at least 6 years old.

1oooqooq 2y ago
is anything using something similar?
- jeanlucas 2y ago
  by the original comment logic, everything that is older than 1 moment is not new anymore
  - poincaredisk 2y ago
    I wrote my comment, because I had to recheck if this is the same Yggdrassil I've read about 5 years ago. When I read about a new thing I also wonder will it be more popular in the future, and knowing it's already many years old reduces the chance of explosive growth in the future. At some point things just... stop being new.
    - jeanlucas 2y ago
      I didn't mean to be mean to you, but in terms of network protocols something can be a new approach for a while, especially if others are still trying out. What is it compared to? TCP/IP is past 50 years old. Then again, I agree with you: it wasn't created yesterday.

fred_is_fred 2y ago

I get why the name was used but if you start a project that you want to be heavily adopted, please pick a simpler name. The complexity of spelling or pronouncing this for most people creates an actual barrier to adoption. MP3 was easy to say and tell your friends about, Ogg Vorbis was not.

opan 2y ago
Ogg Vorbis seems very pronounceable to me, and without an obvious wrong way to say it, using an english language perspective. Yggdrasil is a wild one, though, agreed. Better a unique name than another thing called Gemini or Atom or something, though.
- majoe 2y ago
  The English language has the habit of taking perfectly fine Latin words and pronounce them in the most unintuitive way. Gemini is actually a good example, I rather take Yggdrasil.
- NemoNobody 2y ago
  No, Fred is right - it would better if it was atom or gemini, that's literally what he is saying. Yggdrasil - I just had to type the entire word out and even then autocorrect didn't tell me I had a word. I think the Mp3 vs Ogg Vorbis is perfect analogy. Tbh, I wouldn't use a Scandinavian language word for a global application as it will automatically frustrate any English as a second language users - the words defy practically all rules of English, they frustrate me even as no matter if I can read them, I often have no idea how to pronounce them unless I've already heard them said. This is one of those words I encountered many times before I first heard it said and actually knew how to say it. Fred is right 100
  - NemoNobody 2y ago
    Haha, I just realized I actually have used a Scandinavian word in an app I intended for global use - I just respelled the word so that it made sense in English.
  - anotherhue 2y ago
    To give a contrary opinion I think it's a beautiful world and an excellent gateway to one of our greatest mythologies. "The World Tree" is an aspect of human literary history. I'm not an ESL so I can only imagine the difficulties but I do not think we should be robbing the world of beauty, history and nuance for the sake of business English. Few English speakers can spell or pronounce it correctly so it even becomes a shared difficulty. Fun fact: several names of days of the week come from Norse mythology. Look up the names of the months if you want something more modern.

linsomniac 2y ago

I was pretty excited about it 3-4 years ago, but it seems like it's kind of an abandoned project at this point. Anyone making use of it and have any impressions?

DanAtC 2y ago
There have been a few updates recently including a revival of the iOS app which had languished for some time. I use it as a VPN to connect my phone to my home network which are both peered privately to a VPS. It's a bit convoluted vs directly connecting to home, but it was easier to set up than worrying about dynamic IPs, port forwarding, and exchanging Wireguard keys. Multicast peering is neat in that I can access my home server directly using the same Ygg IP when I'm home. Problem is, I have to use an IP; the iOS app doesn't support configuring a custom DNS server for the Ygg VPN connection. Headscale is really a better solution for this use-case, but it's kind-of neat to know there's an alternative Internet available with just an additional peering.
- sunshine-o 2y ago
  Using Yggdrasil as a mesh VPN for your devices could be a great use case. From a quick search it seems you do not even need a static IP address [0] I am not familiar with Yggdrasil and can't wrap my hear around how this is possible ! - [0] https://lemmy.sdf.org/comment/472679 https://lemmy.sdf.org/comment/472679
  - scottyeager 2y ago
    To join the larger public Yggdrasil network, you need to peer with at least one publicly reachable node. Most likely that machine has a static IPv4 address. There are a number of such nodes operated by volunteers, and they enable the magic that allows any device to join the network and immediately start receiving inbound traffic from the rest of the network. By opening an outbound connection to the public node, a channel is created for traffic to flow back to the non public node.
  - ravenstine 2y ago

hahajk 2y ago

Ok, so as I understand it, yggdrasil and cjdns are virtual P2P networks that offer the normal layer 3 routing services, but built on top of the existing internet. So they still require ISPs and internet backbones, etc. Are there any projects attempting to build a worldwide P2P network that can replace the IP layer? Like a mesh network that can operate without verizon, cisco routers, etc? I know of some mesh network technologies aimed at small disconnected networks but nothing consumer-facing and supporting anything more than a few thousand nodes.

dartos 2y ago
There’s meshtastic, but it’s not a full internet stack replacement iirc
- prurigro 2y ago
  It can do tcp/ip, but it's extremely slow. Like 5+ seconds for a character to appear over ssh with a direct connection.
u8080 2y ago
There was cjdroute project with own OpenWRT-based Yggdrasil firmware for routers. But it seems failed to gain traction and died - https://habr.com/ru/companies/cjdns/articles/198428/ https://habr.com/ru/companies/cjdns/articles/198428/ [in Russian]
prussia 2y ago
reticulum.network perhaps? It certainly fits the "replace the IP layer" requirement, and I believe in theory it can be very large scale, though unsure how it would do in reality.
fragmede 2y ago
It's a very romantic notion, but there's a lot of resources (time/money/hardware/effort) that go into the existing IP layer that's totally invisible. Without a plan on how to supplant those resources, any replacement network will struggle.

PhilipRoman 2y ago

I really like the idea of address being derived from public key, but there is a problem with this approach - since Yggdrasil currently uses IPv6 addresses, the length is very limited and you can find collisions (there is a workaround which involves brute forcing a key with more leading bits). As I understand, the long term plan is adding a custom protocol which has no limits for address length.

Retr0id 2y ago
My napkin math says it'd be plausible to generate a pair of colliding addresses (birthday paradox etc.), but still implausible to collide with the set of existing in-use addresses. How much would the former actually matter, in the context of Yggdrasil?
numberless 2y ago
Why not use the entire public key and let entropy do the rest, like the Reticulum Network?
neilalexander 2y ago
Truncating the public key to fit in an IPv6 address isn’t totally ideal, agreed, but for now it means that just about any existing IPv6-capable application will work over Yggdrasil without modification, which is a nice property for a testnet.
- Retr0id 2y ago
  What about truncating a hash of the whole public key? (what's what I'd assumed was happening already)

numberless 2y ago

Something else in this space includes the Reticulum Network Stack https://reticulum.network/ https://reticulum.network/

foundry27 2y ago

The first thing I tried to find on their website and their GitHub was a protocol specification, to be able to implement it independently from the reference implementation. I thought this would be straightforward since it’s advertised as a scheme/protocol, but such a spec isn’t referenced anywhere! Digging on my own I eventually found [1] on a side-branch of one of their other GitHub projects. Kudos to the author: I think it actually covers a lot of what you’d need to know: crypto identities, message formats, wire protocols, peering and stream semantics, spanning tree updates and root selection, the DHT, forwarding logic, sessions, etc. A couple things are TODOs like how to verify and sign root updates, and there’s some ambiguity in the tiebreaker algorithm for next-hop selection. It seems to be very tightly coupled to TCP as the transport layer though, since all packets need to be delivered reliably and in the order they were sent, and need to be capable of being fragmented into smaller packets for varying MTU sizes. [1] https://github.com/yggdrasil-network/yggdrasil-specs/blob/ys001/ys001-yggdrasil-core-specification.md https://github.com/yggdrasil-network/yggdrasil-specs/blob/ys...

neilalexander 2y ago
We did spend a little bit of time documenting the earlier v0.3 protocol, as you have linked, but the protocol has changed significantly in design twice since then. v0.4 changed the DHT quite a bit and v0.5 removed the DHT altogether. As a research project it likely will continue to change until we settle on a design we are happier with, at which point we will definitely spend more time documenting it. The need for ordered/reliable links is mostly for convenience of development at this stage, but that can be fixed for sure.
- Rhapso 2y ago
  Look at https://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.06461 https://arxiv.org/pdf/1502.06461 if you want to try a chord dht again. Kademlia is a lot less intuitive, but by not ever assuming it's tables are correct, it handles and corrects inconsistency (and malicious nodes) better. Chapter 6 of this pile of (my) crap https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cs_diss/106/ https://scholarworks.gsu.edu/cs_diss/106/ talks about doing latency optimization on dht routing. Basically just embedding then network graph into a metric space.

A4ET8a8uTh0 2y ago

FAQ >> Is Yggdrasil anonymous? No, it is not a goal of the Yggdrasil project to provide anonymity. I understand that the problem is hard, has its own set of issues to solve beyond just technical, but this honestly makes it a non-starter for me. Anything that would be an actual internet evolution would need to include actual anonymity. Apart from this, I simply do not see what problem it actually solves for the existing internet that is not already solved with the current setup.

neilalexander 2y ago
Anonymity isn’t a goal for Yggdrasil anymore than it is a goal for for BGP, OSPF, BATMAN etc. Anonymous networks also generally have very high costs/overheads as they often engineer long and indirect paths for obscurity. See the generally poor performance/reliability of Tor circuits for an example of why we probably wouldn’t want the entire Internet to work this way.
ravenstine 2y ago
Why? I think it makes perfect sense to focus on a mesh routing protocol and make anonymity something optional that you can lay on top of it. No reason you can't run a Yggdrasil network and have an I2P network within it. This way there isn't as much of a performance hit for communications that don't call for anonymity, and anonymous peers can be established without being on the clearnet.
cma 2y ago
Optimized latency can deanonymize, so better to layer anonymization on top.

pjmlp 2y ago

And me thinking it was a Linux distribution. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yggdrasil_Linux/GNU/X

omani 2y ago

something else in this space includes (New Kind of Network) NKN. (https://nkn.org https://nkn.org)

jcmontx 2y ago

I don't know a lot about networking. Where does this stand in the networking layers? Transport? Network?

myspeed 2y ago

Sounds like Teredo tunnels which was part of Windows 7. It builds ipv6 tunnel over ipv4 and assigns a global IPv6 address to Windows machines. But these tunnels were later removed from Windows 10.

varunnrao 2y ago

This is not a technical point but does anyone know which font was used to typeset the logo? It looks really nice and clean.

epapsiou 2y ago

50 comments and no one mentioned Treeship or Hyperion!!

gautamcgoel 2y ago
Yeah, this is what I was thinking! The Templars would be so disappointed...

block_dagger 2y ago

Came in thinking this was an extension for the game Valheim. Different yggdrasil apparently.

jeroenhd 2y ago
Yggdrasill is a name from Norse mythology. It's the tree along which the nine worlds were believed to exist.

dang 2y ago

Related: Yggdrasil Network - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41669625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41669625 - Sept 2024 (3 comments) Yggdrasil P2P mesh E2EE IPv6 network - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30156551 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30156551 - Jan 2022 (77 comments) Yggdrasil – Early-stage implementation of an end-to-end encrypted IPv6 network - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27577201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27577201 - June 2021 (102 comments) Show HN: Yggdrasil Network – compact mesh routing experiment for mesh networks - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18863554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18863554 - Jan 2019 (15 comments) Announcing Yggdrasil Network v0.3 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18751991 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18751991 - Dec 2018 (3 comments) Yggdrasil: End-To-end Encrypted IPv6 Networking - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18666245 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18666245 - Dec 2018 (1 comment)

coppsilgold 2y ago

If you want an actual mesh p2p IP-network that can punch through firewalls/NATs you can use Tailscale/Headscale If you want a crypto-key addressable p2p connection-network there is a somewhat recent project which does this rather well: https://www.iroh.computer https://www.iroh.computer It punches through firewalls/NATs and establishes QUIC connections. They have two already useful PoC's: https://github.com/n0-computer/sendme https://github.com/n0-computer/sendme https://github.com/n0-computer/dumbpipe https://github.com/n0-computer/dumbpipe

xrd 2y ago
I was about to ask this question. Why would someone use yggdrasil over tailscale or wireguard? Is there any benefit? If I'm just trying to run my own private lightweight VPN, tailscale (and headscale if I want to self host the network) works great and offers so many benefits.
- dinosaurdynasty 2y ago
  In practice I find it stupidly reliable, and use it to reconfigure/fix WireGuard issues remotely (I had to fix the MTU once on hotel Wi-Fi). It's also completely open source, unlike tailscale. And something's that cool is that Yggdrasil can automatically peer over "unconfigured" layer 2 links so if you have a complex topology (like an actual mesh) it can be useful for that. It's also stupidly simple to set up Yggdrasil in a dual WAN environment, which is nice.

beeflet 2y ago

Still reading about this. Something strange is that ygg addresses are made to fit in ipv6 using the hash of a pubkey. How does vanity mining lead to any security benefit? Why not just make a new TLD like .onion or .i2p and use base32?

zoobab 2y ago

I used Onioncat, an IPv6 network over TOR: https://github.com/rahra/onioncat https://github.com/rahra/onioncat

barberpole 2y ago

I thought this was going to be about Yggdrasil. Why must every name in the world be destroyed by software labellers?

ilynd 2y ago

I'm quite surprised about the number of times I've seen the world 'yggdrasil'.

adusinli2018 2y ago

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