5 ms·

> As opposed to young women, who expect men to earn more than them, adore them, and to do all that while caring for kids Not anymore, that's my point. Women's

> As opposed to young women, who expect men to earn more than them, adore them, and to do all that while caring for kids Not anymore, that's my point. Women's dreams are changing now that they can make real money. Men's dreams are not catching up. > Yes young men today will be sad, but ultimately, this is a self-correcting problem Self correcting in many ways but it is often 'corrected' by oppression and violence. Women did not forbid themselves from going outside or showing their faces.

anon291 2y ago
> Not anymore, that's my point. Women's dreams are changing now that they can make real money. Men's dreams are not catching up. What should men dream? I honestly think the truth of the matter is that women's dreams change the moment they have a baby. Literally every women I know suddenly has a change of heart on how their future ought to unfold the moment the baby is born. Part of the problem here is that couples are not even crossing that Rubicon, so to speak . I count myself as a man who probably dreamed what you think men ought to have. My wife and I married young, yes, but we both envisioned working full time. Then we had the baby... and suddenly your wife is obsessed with this little person in a way you never thought possible. My wife in particular never counted herself as a 'kid' person, but it's different when its your own, especially for women. Suddenly, it seemed like the only sane option was the traditional one. But I scorned those who told me that before that happened to us. I think we should just be honest about the effect of hormones on women's desires. It would be kinder to men and women to do that.
- nineplay 2y ago
  > What should men dream? Anyone can dream anything but they shouldn't respond with outrage and fury if their dreams don't come true. > I honestly think the truth of the matter is that women's dreams change the moment they have a baby. Not in my experience but that is immaterial in the context of the current discussion. Women are not having babies. Not in the US, not in east Asia. In their opinions they've got better things to do.
  - anon291 2y ago
    > they shouldn't respond with outrage and fury if their dreams don't come true. Who is responding with fury? I see no widespread male fury? On the internet, you'll always find someone furious enough. > Not in the US, not in east Asia. In their opinions they've got better things to do. Fine with me. Their ideals and cultural preferences won't be present in the next generation. A self-fixing problem.
    - nineplay 2y ago
      > Fine with me. Their ideals and cultural preferences won't be present in the next generation. A self-fixing problem. The governments of Japan and South Korea disagree.
epicureanideal 2y ago
> Self correcting in many ways but it is often 'corrected' by oppression and violence. Women did not forbid themselves from going outside or showing their faces. Where in the western world is this happening?
- nineplay 2y ago
  Nowhere in the west of course, but in the mid-east they found their own way to 'correct' liberated women. Saying something is 'self-correcting' is not the same as saying that the correction is something that you are going to like.
  - swat535 2y ago
    This is ridiculous, not all populations that have a healthy birth rates are forcing women to coverup. Western culture as it stands today, promotes individualism driven by capitalism and ignores the collective, others promote family values and builds support networks to sustain it. No one in Israel is beating women.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      No one in Israel is beating women. But of course they are. Women are beaten everywhere. There's certainly nothing special about Israel in this regard.
      - epicureanideal 2y ago
        At vastly different rates. You’re talking about an extremely rare and legally and socially heavily discouraged behavior. One could just as easily say “women kill their young children in every country”, because some mentally ill women sometimes do so. That’s not the same as societal acceptance of the practice. Or we could generalize any negative behavior to any group that has members that do that behavior, which would obviously be an incorrect generalization.
        2y ago

anon291 2y ago

> Not anymore, that's my point. Women's dreams are changing now that they can make real money. Men's dreams are not catching up. What should men dream? I honestly think the truth of the matter is that women's dreams change the moment they have a baby. Literally every women I know suddenly has a change of heart on how their future ought to unfold the moment the baby is born. Part of the problem here is that couples are not even crossing that Rubicon, so to speak . I count myself as a man who probably dreamed what you think men ought to have. My wife and I married young, yes, but we both envisioned working full time. Then we had the baby... and suddenly your wife is obsessed with this little person in a way you never thought possible. My wife in particular never counted herself as a 'kid' person, but it's different when its your own, especially for women. Suddenly, it seemed like the only sane option was the traditional one. But I scorned those who told me that before that happened to us. I think we should just be honest about the effect of hormones on women's desires. It would be kinder to men and women to do that.

nineplay 2y ago
> What should men dream? Anyone can dream anything but they shouldn't respond with outrage and fury if their dreams don't come true. > I honestly think the truth of the matter is that women's dreams change the moment they have a baby. Not in my experience but that is immaterial in the context of the current discussion. Women are not having babies. Not in the US, not in east Asia. In their opinions they've got better things to do.
- anon291 2y ago
  > they shouldn't respond with outrage and fury if their dreams don't come true. Who is responding with fury? I see no widespread male fury? On the internet, you'll always find someone furious enough. > Not in the US, not in east Asia. In their opinions they've got better things to do. Fine with me. Their ideals and cultural preferences won't be present in the next generation. A self-fixing problem.
  - nineplay 2y ago
    > Fine with me. Their ideals and cultural preferences won't be present in the next generation. A self-fixing problem. The governments of Japan and South Korea disagree.

epicureanideal 2y ago

> Self correcting in many ways but it is often 'corrected' by oppression and violence. Women did not forbid themselves from going outside or showing their faces. Where in the western world is this happening?

nineplay 2y ago
Nowhere in the west of course, but in the mid-east they found their own way to 'correct' liberated women. Saying something is 'self-correcting' is not the same as saying that the correction is something that you are going to like.
- swat535 2y ago
  This is ridiculous, not all populations that have a healthy birth rates are forcing women to coverup. Western culture as it stands today, promotes individualism driven by capitalism and ignores the collective, others promote family values and builds support networks to sustain it. No one in Israel is beating women.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    No one in Israel is beating women. But of course they are. Women are beaten everywhere. There's certainly nothing special about Israel in this regard.
    - epicureanideal 2y ago
      At vastly different rates. You’re talking about an extremely rare and legally and socially heavily discouraged behavior. One could just as easily say “women kill their young children in every country”, because some mentally ill women sometimes do so. That’s not the same as societal acceptance of the practice. Or we could generalize any negative behavior to any group that has members that do that behavior, which would obviously be an incorrect generalization.
      - 2y ago