6 ms·

See, your post is exactly what OP is talking about.

philosopher1234 2y ago
Making an argument that fascists are taking over the world may indeed be what gp doesn’t like. But gp (and yourself, presumably) not liking it doesn’t make it untrue, and certainly doesn’t mean the argument should be censored.
- parl_match 2y ago
  Being censored is not the same as not being amplified.
  - otterley 2y ago
    Or, freedom of speech does not mean freedom of reach.
    - parl_match 2y ago
      Freedom of speech means you are allowed to say whatever you like. You are allowed to write it down. You are allowed to make copies of it and distribute it. It does NOT mean that others are COMPELLED to carry or distribute your message. I recognize this can create uncomfortable situations, such as when a corporation that controls the stack of modern communication decides your speech is forbidden. That is, I think, a very related but separate issue. At the end of the day, you can stand on a box on the corner of your street and yell.
  - bbor 2y ago
    Idk deleting a comment is kinda the definition of censorship. It’s not governmental censorship, but that’s not the only kind, just the worst one. Censorship is justified sometimes of course, tho I’m both sad and surprised that our two kings have decided any discussion of authoritarianism deserves this treatment. What is HackerNews? What does it mean to stimulate intellectual curiosity when legal freedom of speech is at risk for the large majority of the user base? I guess technically Thiel is into Trump so maybe influencing Graham, but I never got the impression he dictated moderation decisions here. The more likely explanation, IMO, is that they’re just trying not to rock the boat, and “ban all serious political discussion on sight” is still their way to do that
  - blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
    Providing different amplification to messages based on their political viewpoint is effectively censorship.
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      Sad to see such a logical and straightforward statement being grayed out :/ Especially when the political viewpoint in question is "Guys maybe we should worry about this looming fascism, evidenced by just about every possible indicator".
    - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
      This is incorrect. Censorship is eliminating someone’s voice. Amplifying views you like is called running your own social network.
      - mandmandam 2y ago
        Nope. > censorship, the changing or the suppression or prohibition of speech or writing that is deemed subversive of the common good. (Brittanica) - note 'changing' and 'suppression', rather than 'elimination'. > Any regime or context in which the content of what is publically expressed, exhibited, published, broadcast, or otherwise distributed is regulated or in which the circulation of information is controlled. > The practice and process of suppression or any particular instance of this. This may involve the partial or total suppression of any text or the entire output of an individual or organization on a limited or permanent basis. (Oxford) - note 'regulated' and 'controlled', and explicitly, 'partial or total', rather than elimination. > Amplifying views you like Ie, literally de facto censorship. When every social network is owned by the yacht class, and they are "amplifying" everything except political views calling for a more equitable and less genocidal system, that's censorship. Definitevily.
gred 2y ago
> I try to filter out political tweets. > Seriously!? But don't you realize that ${political.outrage.tweet.792305}??
- mandmandam 2y ago
  Filtering 'political tweets' on Mastodon is fine by me. It's expecting that behavior as the default which I take issue with, and denying the specter of rising fascism. (Because yeesh, why care about a year of genocide funded with our own taxes and enabled by our leaders?) Some people actually do care about what's happening in the world; say, for example, the UN calling out a genocide backed by Western powers with our tax money. I believe they ought to be able to discuss these things without being flagged/shadowbanned/banned etc, especially on decentralized fora. The major platforms already suppress such discussion. If you want to avoid making custom filters, just stay on those.
becquerel 2y ago
Them providing a counterargument with a cited source?
mandmandam 2y ago
You think comments like mine should be flagged/invisible by default? ... Idk man, seems kinda fascist tbh. OP made blocking rules as a personal preference - 100% fine. Expecting censorship of political topics like rising fascism as the default - dangerously naive.
- sph 2y ago
  Does every platform need to become the frontline of American politics?
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    First, a few points: * The genocide in Israel isn't just an American project. Many countries leaders and media are complicit. * Fascism isn't just rising in America. * American politics affects the entire world. Simply look at a map of US military bases, or the threats we level against courts and regulators and leaders. * Most platforms heavily suppress huge swathes of political content which falls outside the current Overton window (which has, indeed, been moving toward fascism for decades across the West). Second, Mastodon is a decentralized forum. Complaining about political content on it, in a time of historic inequality, and then asking if all platforms need to be a "frontline of American politics" is really quite silly. It would be like complaining about all the business news on HN, then asking if every platform needs to be so relentlessly capitalistic.

Making an argument that fascists are taking over the world may indeed be what gp doesn’t like. But gp (and yourself, presumably) not liking it doesn’t make it untrue, and certainly doesn’t mean the argument should be censored.

parl_match 2y ago
Being censored is not the same as not being amplified.
- otterley 2y ago
  Or, freedom of speech does not mean freedom of reach.
  - parl_match 2y ago
    Freedom of speech means you are allowed to say whatever you like. You are allowed to write it down. You are allowed to make copies of it and distribute it. It does NOT mean that others are COMPELLED to carry or distribute your message. I recognize this can create uncomfortable situations, such as when a corporation that controls the stack of modern communication decides your speech is forbidden. That is, I think, a very related but separate issue. At the end of the day, you can stand on a box on the corner of your street and yell.
- bbor 2y ago
  Idk deleting a comment is kinda the definition of censorship. It’s not governmental censorship, but that’s not the only kind, just the worst one. Censorship is justified sometimes of course, tho I’m both sad and surprised that our two kings have decided any discussion of authoritarianism deserves this treatment. What is HackerNews? What does it mean to stimulate intellectual curiosity when legal freedom of speech is at risk for the large majority of the user base? I guess technically Thiel is into Trump so maybe influencing Graham, but I never got the impression he dictated moderation decisions here. The more likely explanation, IMO, is that they’re just trying not to rock the boat, and “ban all serious political discussion on sight” is still their way to do that
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  Providing different amplification to messages based on their political viewpoint is effectively censorship.
  - mandmandam 2y ago
    Sad to see such a logical and straightforward statement being grayed out :/ Especially when the political viewpoint in question is "Guys maybe we should worry about this looming fascism, evidenced by just about every possible indicator".
  - blackqueeriroh 2y ago
    This is incorrect. Censorship is eliminating someone’s voice. Amplifying views you like is called running your own social network.
    - mandmandam 2y ago
      Nope. > censorship, the changing or the suppression or prohibition of speech or writing that is deemed subversive of the common good. (Brittanica) - note 'changing' and 'suppression', rather than 'elimination'. > Any regime or context in which the content of what is publically expressed, exhibited, published, broadcast, or otherwise distributed is regulated or in which the circulation of information is controlled. > The practice and process of suppression or any particular instance of this. This may involve the partial or total suppression of any text or the entire output of an individual or organization on a limited or permanent basis. (Oxford) - note 'regulated' and 'controlled', and explicitly, 'partial or total', rather than elimination. > Amplifying views you like Ie, literally de facto censorship. When every social network is owned by the yacht class, and they are "amplifying" everything except political views calling for a more equitable and less genocidal system, that's censorship. Definitevily.

gred 2y ago

> I try to filter out political tweets. > Seriously!? But don't you realize that ${political.outrage.tweet.792305}??

mandmandam 2y ago
Filtering 'political tweets' on Mastodon is fine by me. It's expecting that behavior as the default which I take issue with, and denying the specter of rising fascism. (Because yeesh, why care about a year of genocide funded with our own taxes and enabled by our leaders?) Some people actually do care about what's happening in the world; say, for example, the UN calling out a genocide backed by Western powers with our tax money. I believe they ought to be able to discuss these things without being flagged/shadowbanned/banned etc, especially on decentralized fora. The major platforms already suppress such discussion. If you want to avoid making custom filters, just stay on those.

becquerel 2y ago

Them providing a counterargument with a cited source?

mandmandam 2y ago

You think comments like mine should be flagged/invisible by default? ... Idk man, seems kinda fascist tbh. OP made blocking rules as a personal preference - 100% fine. Expecting censorship of political topics like rising fascism as the default - dangerously naive.

sph 2y ago
Does every platform need to become the frontline of American politics?
- mandmandam 2y ago
  First, a few points: * The genocide in Israel isn't just an American project. Many countries leaders and media are complicit. * Fascism isn't just rising in America. * American politics affects the entire world. Simply look at a map of US military bases, or the threats we level against courts and regulators and leaders. * Most platforms heavily suppress huge swathes of political content which falls outside the current Overton window (which has, indeed, been moving toward fascism for decades across the West). Second, Mastodon is a decentralized forum. Complaining about political content on it, in a time of historic inequality, and then asking if all platforms need to be a "frontline of American politics" is really quite silly. It would be like complaining about all the business news on HN, then asking if every platform needs to be so relentlessly capitalistic.