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Well, that perception, if it has been presented to you, is false. In fact, in India, whenever someone is discouraged to help someone out, the most popular argum

Well, that perception, if it has been presented to you, is false. In fact, in India, whenever someone is discouraged to help someone out, the most popular argument is "Why bother? It's not your problem!" or "It'll be more trouble than it's worth" - just like anywhere else in the world.

JonnieCache 14y ago
Surely the belief in karma/reincarnation and the caste system are mutually reinforcing on some level though? EDIT: But the part about it being "bad karma" to help some people and not others, that definitely sounds like somebody has misunderstood somewhere.
- photon137 14y ago
  Well, the caste system exists and the inequalities exist - but they exist purely due to economic and political incentives. Belief in karma and reincarnation has got nothing to do with it. And even the victims of this system know this.
  - memset 14y ago
    I want to nitpick slightly, if I may, albeit the point is not related to the general discussion of poverty in India. There is also some modern, relevant benefits to identifying someone's caste: it is an indicator that someone comes from a similar cultural or religious upbringing. That you speak similar dialects of Hindi. This is important when, say, marrying. This says nothing of the caste system as institutional discrimination, but it's worth mentioning that caste is not "purely" an economic/political bit of culture.
    - geekam 14y ago
      Yes, caste system is embedded in the culture. It is not purely economic/political in nature. It is used by politicians because it is there, socially. This form is racism exists so deep in India. You can witness this: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit * India Untouched - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1552060/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1552060/ * India's broken people - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxJr0UlcNTA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxJr0UlcNTA There is whole sect in India which is segregated, tortured everyday for being born as a lower caste and it does not even end with their death. They have to clean others' feces by their hands (yes even today) and this is considered a norm. Rich, higher caste still instill this in their own kids to be wary of the "dirty people". Kids born into Dalit families are reminded of this by not letting them eat with other kids, not letting them wear same clothes and being asked for their caste again and again. This system is kept alive. This all still exists and is in abundance. Point to note is that this is not just in rural, uneducated parts of India. Honestly, the concept comes from Hinduism. As a major religion for centuries, it has a code-of-conduct by Manu to divide the society into 4 major parts. But now it is a part of every sect in practice. It exists and it is social.
      - mitra 14y ago
        It's going to be hard for the caste system to stay rigid because in larger cities there is no way of verifying any of this. In bigger cities like Mumbai, it's already pretty apparent with most kids growing up indifferent to the complex caste adherence of the past. Most of these kids would not be able to attribute a caste to people based on their last names as that knowledge has been lost. Going with the theme of this thread, this is definitely not true across the board but definitely applies to the large majority, at least in major towns and cities.
      - known 14y ago
        British found solution to the caste menace and promptly gave independence to Christians/Anglo-Indians/Sikh/SC/ST communities in 4th August 1932 Round Table Conference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award
    - j45 14y ago
      Caste is the most insidious poison to ever walk the face of the planet, far worse than all the wars, disease, famine and genocide committed, because the people on the right side of caste find ways to justify it.
darien 14y ago
Justifying someone's misery as 'bad karma' was told to me by Eileen Weintraub, the founder of http://www.helpanimalsindia.org http://www.helpanimalsindia.org. She tries to teach local indian communities how to organize local community animal shelters... which helps with the cut down as animal dung littering the streets, among other things.
statictype 14y ago
Anecdotally, about ten years ago, when walking down a street once, a poor girl started following me around. I reached into my pocket and gave her a handful of whatever loose change I had lying around in there. She continued to badger me for the next 10min, even while I tried crossing the street multiple times to get her off my trail. I once got stopped by a couple that gave me a story about being left away from home and no means to get back etc... I gave them Rs.50 and they kind of stared at me with bewilderment like "that's all you're giving me" (And keep in mind that I'm not a white guy standing out in the crowd - I look just like every other Indian on the street :) ) Small things like this make me slightly more reluctant to give money to people on the street. I prefer to donate via charities that I help out with instead.

JonnieCache 14y ago

Surely the belief in karma/reincarnation and the caste system are mutually reinforcing on some level though? EDIT: But the part about it being "bad karma" to help some people and not others, that definitely sounds like somebody has misunderstood somewhere.

photon137 14y ago
Well, the caste system exists and the inequalities exist - but they exist purely due to economic and political incentives. Belief in karma and reincarnation has got nothing to do with it. And even the victims of this system know this.
- memset 14y ago
  I want to nitpick slightly, if I may, albeit the point is not related to the general discussion of poverty in India. There is also some modern, relevant benefits to identifying someone's caste: it is an indicator that someone comes from a similar cultural or religious upbringing. That you speak similar dialects of Hindi. This is important when, say, marrying. This says nothing of the caste system as institutional discrimination, but it's worth mentioning that caste is not "purely" an economic/political bit of culture.
  - geekam 14y ago
    Yes, caste system is embedded in the culture. It is not purely economic/political in nature. It is used by politicians because it is there, socially. This form is racism exists so deep in India. You can witness this: * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit * India Untouched - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1552060/ http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1552060/ * India's broken people - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxJr0UlcNTA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxJr0UlcNTA There is whole sect in India which is segregated, tortured everyday for being born as a lower caste and it does not even end with their death. They have to clean others' feces by their hands (yes even today) and this is considered a norm. Rich, higher caste still instill this in their own kids to be wary of the "dirty people". Kids born into Dalit families are reminded of this by not letting them eat with other kids, not letting them wear same clothes and being asked for their caste again and again. This system is kept alive. This all still exists and is in abundance. Point to note is that this is not just in rural, uneducated parts of India. Honestly, the concept comes from Hinduism. As a major religion for centuries, it has a code-of-conduct by Manu to divide the society into 4 major parts. But now it is a part of every sect in practice. It exists and it is social.
    - mitra 14y ago
      It's going to be hard for the caste system to stay rigid because in larger cities there is no way of verifying any of this. In bigger cities like Mumbai, it's already pretty apparent with most kids growing up indifferent to the complex caste adherence of the past. Most of these kids would not be able to attribute a caste to people based on their last names as that knowledge has been lost. Going with the theme of this thread, this is definitely not true across the board but definitely applies to the large majority, at least in major towns and cities.
    - known 14y ago
      British found solution to the caste menace and promptly gave independence to Christians/Anglo-Indians/Sikh/SC/ST communities in 4th August 1932 Round Table Conference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communal_Award
  - j45 14y ago
    Caste is the most insidious poison to ever walk the face of the planet, far worse than all the wars, disease, famine and genocide committed, because the people on the right side of caste find ways to justify it.

darien 14y ago

Justifying someone's misery as 'bad karma' was told to me by Eileen Weintraub, the founder of http://www.helpanimalsindia.org http://www.helpanimalsindia.org. She tries to teach local indian communities how to organize local community animal shelters... which helps with the cut down as animal dung littering the streets, among other things.

statictype 14y ago

Anecdotally, about ten years ago, when walking down a street once, a poor girl started following me around. I reached into my pocket and gave her a handful of whatever loose change I had lying around in there. She continued to badger me for the next 10min, even while I tried crossing the street multiple times to get her off my trail. I once got stopped by a couple that gave me a story about being left away from home and no means to get back etc... I gave them Rs.50 and they kind of stared at me with bewilderment like "that's all you're giving me" (And keep in mind that I'm not a white guy standing out in the crowd - I look just like every other Indian on the street :) ) Small things like this make me slightly more reluctant to give money to people on the street. I prefer to donate via charities that I help out with instead.