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I’m surprised Virginia didn’t hear the ship’s motor from miles away and kept its distance. I wonder if there will be any disciplinary actions.

by crmd 2y ago

SiempreViernes 2y ago
They for sure heard the motor, a lot harder to hear the net though. As for keeping their distance... well, they are a nuclear submarine, why should they be polite?
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >well, they are a nuclear submarine, why should they be polite? Because you'll fight like you train. Accidentally snagging a trawler in unfriendly waters after having just tapped a seabed cable would be a problem. That said, there's a fine line between maintaining good standard procedure and getting absurd with it. Dodging a trawler in the middle of nowhere, fine. Dodging a trawler in a crowded channel, probably not worth it.
- gregoriol 2y ago
  They maybe would not like to kill civilians, nor would they like to be detected so easily.
- crmd 2y ago
  As a civilian I’m in no position to critique the CO’s decision making. However it doesn’t seem unreasonable to assume a SONAR contact classified as a fishing boat may have a net deployed posing a hazard within a certain radius. I assume Aaron Aamick (Sub Brief) and H.I. Sutton will make a video about this incident in the coming days, and we’ll get a credible answer to whether there’s any fault here on the part of the sub crew.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    > As a civilian I’m in no position to critique the CO’s decision making. To nitpick, you absolutely are. The military reports to the civilians; that is who they are accountable to. That said, I don't know anything about submarines. But it has nothing to do with being a civilian or military. It's the trick of management, oversight, responsibility - we need to oversee and make responsible decisions for things where we lack expertise. I need to hire a plumber even if I know nothing about plumbing. Other people need to hire IT professionals, and IME some of them know nothing about IT!
    - devilbunny 2y ago
      > The military reports to the civilians Yes, they do, but we don't want the civilian leadership criticizing captains for their operational decisions. Strategic, yes, absolutely. "Do we do this mission or not?" is absolutely up to civilians (Secretary of the Navy, Secretary of Defense, President) to decide. A captain making in-the-moment decisions about the running of the boat or ship can be handled by the military - up to and including loss of command or even court martial. If they are operating within their orders and official regulations, civilians should stay out of it or risk having a military that doesn't work when we need it.
      - mmooss 2y ago
        In any organization, military or otherwise, there is a hierarchy of authority. The paint operator reports to their forperson who reports to shop floor manager who reports to the ... etc. who reports to the CEO who reports to the board of directors. It's generally not a good idea for the CEO or board member to directly manage the painter, because there is so much they don't know about the person, situation, paint, etc; that's why they delegate. Also it undermines all the managers in the chain. On the other hand, sometimes those costs are worth it, and it's better than the alternative - sometimes the bureaucratic rules get in the way, or the structure is malfunctioning, and you need to get things moving. But none of that is not special to militaries. > civilians should stay out of it While it may be true practically in many cases, I think that phrase is antithetical to democracies and freedom. A big threat to democracy is a military that is above civilians in status, power, etc. And one big advantage of a democracy is an open society, where citizens can see and respond to issues; sunlight disinfects corruption.
        devilbunny 2y ago
        You left out my leading phrase: if they are operating within their orders and military regulation. And civilians are quite entitled to question those. If the captain is within both of them and still commits a war crime somehow, you don't hang the captain, you hang the admiral.
- otikik 2y ago
  Not “polite”. But, you know, professional. You are supposed to be the ultimate stealth ship. Act like it. A fish boat shouldn’t be able to detect you, especially if all it takes is a slight twist on the joystick. It’s like a ninja being seen by a guy taking a piss in the three he’s hiding at. That’s a shitty ninja.
- ninalanyon 2y ago
  Not hard to notice the net on the sonar or passive listening devices surely. And they were in an area where encountering a fishing boat and its nets is an everyday occurrence. Someone onboard should be reprimanded.
  - krisoft 2y ago
    > Not hard to notice the net on the sonar or passive listening devices surely. Are you saying that because you know that the net makes noise?
    - ninalanyon 2y ago
      I'm simply assuming that fancy submarines are well equipped to detect things that are trying to be quiet so detecting something like an active fishing boat and its trawl should surely not be difficult; especially when you already know that it is likely to be in the area.
- keybored 2y ago
  To not inconvenience the natives? Seems obvious.

I’m surprised Virginia didn’t hear the ship’s motor from miles away and kept its distance. I wonder if there will be any disciplinary actions.

by crmd 2y ago

I’m surprised Virginia didn’t hear the ship’s motor from miles away and kept its distance. I wonder if there will be any disciplinary actions.

SiempreViernes 2y ago

They for sure heard the motor, a lot harder to hear the net though. As for keeping their distance... well, they are a nuclear submarine, why should they be polite?

potato3732842 2y ago
>well, they are a nuclear submarine, why should they be polite? Because you'll fight like you train. Accidentally snagging a trawler in unfriendly waters after having just tapped a seabed cable would be a problem. That said, there's a fine line between maintaining good standard procedure and getting absurd with it. Dodging a trawler in the middle of nowhere, fine. Dodging a trawler in a crowded channel, probably not worth it.
gregoriol 2y ago
They maybe would not like to kill civilians, nor would they like to be detected so easily.
crmd 2y ago
As a civilian I’m in no position to critique the CO’s decision making. However it doesn’t seem unreasonable to assume a SONAR contact classified as a fishing boat may have a net deployed posing a hazard within a certain radius. I assume Aaron Aamick (Sub Brief) and H.I. Sutton will make a video about this incident in the coming days, and we’ll get a credible answer to whether there’s any fault here on the part of the sub crew.
- mmooss 2y ago
  > As a civilian I’m in no position to critique the CO’s decision making. To nitpick, you absolutely are. The military reports to the civilians; that is who they are accountable to. That said, I don't know anything about submarines. But it has nothing to do with being a civilian or military. It's the trick of management, oversight, responsibility - we need to oversee and make responsible decisions for things where we lack expertise. I need to hire a plumber even if I know nothing about plumbing. Other people need to hire IT professionals, and IME some of them know nothing about IT!
  - devilbunny 2y ago
    > The military reports to the civilians Yes, they do, but we don't want the civilian leadership criticizing captains for their operational decisions. Strategic, yes, absolutely. "Do we do this mission or not?" is absolutely up to civilians (Secretary of the Navy, Secretary of Defense, President) to decide. A captain making in-the-moment decisions about the running of the boat or ship can be handled by the military - up to and including loss of command or even court martial. If they are operating within their orders and official regulations, civilians should stay out of it or risk having a military that doesn't work when we need it.
    - mmooss 2y ago
      In any organization, military or otherwise, there is a hierarchy of authority. The paint operator reports to their forperson who reports to shop floor manager who reports to the ... etc. who reports to the CEO who reports to the board of directors. It's generally not a good idea for the CEO or board member to directly manage the painter, because there is so much they don't know about the person, situation, paint, etc; that's why they delegate. Also it undermines all the managers in the chain. On the other hand, sometimes those costs are worth it, and it's better than the alternative - sometimes the bureaucratic rules get in the way, or the structure is malfunctioning, and you need to get things moving. But none of that is not special to militaries. > civilians should stay out of it While it may be true practically in many cases, I think that phrase is antithetical to democracies and freedom. A big threat to democracy is a military that is above civilians in status, power, etc. And one big advantage of a democracy is an open society, where citizens can see and respond to issues; sunlight disinfects corruption.
      - devilbunny 2y ago
        You left out my leading phrase: if they are operating within their orders and military regulation. And civilians are quite entitled to question those. If the captain is within both of them and still commits a war crime somehow, you don't hang the captain, you hang the admiral.
otikik 2y ago
Not “polite”. But, you know, professional. You are supposed to be the ultimate stealth ship. Act like it. A fish boat shouldn’t be able to detect you, especially if all it takes is a slight twist on the joystick. It’s like a ninja being seen by a guy taking a piss in the three he’s hiding at. That’s a shitty ninja.
ninalanyon 2y ago
Not hard to notice the net on the sonar or passive listening devices surely. And they were in an area where encountering a fishing boat and its nets is an everyday occurrence. Someone onboard should be reprimanded.
- krisoft 2y ago
  > Not hard to notice the net on the sonar or passive listening devices surely. Are you saying that because you know that the net makes noise?
  - ninalanyon 2y ago
    I'm simply assuming that fancy submarines are well equipped to detect things that are trying to be quiet so detecting something like an active fishing boat and its trawl should surely not be difficult; especially when you already know that it is likely to be in the area.
keybored 2y ago
To not inconvenience the natives? Seems obvious.