4 ms·

These are called exonyms and there's nothing wrong with them. The Italian city of Firenze is anglicized as Florence. The anglicized Jesus Christ is latinized as

These are called exonyms and there's nothing wrong with them. The Italian city of Firenze is anglicized as Florence. The anglicized Jesus Christ is latinized as Iesus Christus, hellenized as Iesous Christos, aramaicized as Yeshua Mshiha. People do this all the time with tons of words and especially with proper nouns. It's completely normal and okay.

eadmund 2y ago
I love exonyms when they are native. As you note, the English name for the Italian city is Florence (so too the proper English words are Turkey, Kiev and Peking, not Turkiye, Kyiv or Beijing). I see no reason at all to use the French name for a Flemish city when writing in English. When writing in French, sure.
- seszett 2y ago
  But Florence is the French name of that city. Or Rome. I don't really understand the difference with Louvain.
- readthenotes1 2y ago
  What was it called in 1914?
  - hyperman1 2y ago
    Both. Belgium is multi-lingual (NL,FR,DE), so most cities and bigger towns have 2 or 3 names. In fact, today, most streets in Brussels have 2 names. So do a lot of big local companies Most local inhabitants would have called it Leuven, as it is a Flemish city. The rich people at that time, both inside and outside the city, heavily promoted French, and pushed only the French names in politics and international communication. Even today, this is a very touchy subject.
    - roelschroeven 2y ago
      Just some clarification on what Belgium's multi-linguality means exactly: Flanders is Dutch-speaking. Wallonia is primarily French-speaking, except for a small part of it which is German-speaking ( The Brussels Capital Region is officially bi-lingual Dutch/French, but in practice it's almost completely French. In restaurants, shops, ... you can be sure to find people who can help you in French, but almost never in Dutch. Police, hospitals, ... are supposed to be bi-lingual, but good luck getting good help if you speak Dutch but not French. In most places, you'll only encounter one language: your own native language. Only Brussels is supposed to be bi-lingual. Many cities do have two or three names, but that's not because those two or three languages are actually spoken in that city.
- jltsiren 2y ago
  Out of those, Florence and Turkey are proper exonyms. Kiev and Kyiv are direct romanizations of the Russian and Ukrainian names. Other languages have actual exonyms for the city, such as Kiova in Finnish and Kijow in Polish. Peking is a romanization of an older pronunciation, while Beijing is closer to the modern pronunciation of the same name.
thiscatis 2y ago
They are wrong. This is like calling Gdansk, Danzig.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  You mean like calling the Netherlands, Holandia? There's a lot of exonyms in Polish in everyday use.
bloak 2y ago
It's normal, but it causes some problems: people using the wrong exonym or failing to find something they're looking for. And it seems to be gradually going out of fashion. Which places in Belgium have an English Wikipedia page with an exonym as the page title? I can find Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, Ostend. Are there others? I wouldn't be very surprised if a couple of those went out of fashion in English over the coming decades, just like "Brunswick", "Francfort" and "Aix-la-Chapelle" went out of fashion. And "Basle" is on the way out, isn't it?
- nsavage 2y ago
  A bit off topic, but you had me curious: the first exonym that I could think about was Quebec City, which is called in French Ville de Québec. The interesting part though is that the official name of the city in both languages is Québec, lacking the Ville or the City. Is this an exonym though, since its Canadians who have come up with both? Probably depends on who you speak to.
- kgwgk 2y ago
  Antwerp.
praptak 2y ago
There's nothing wrong with exonyms in principle. However using "Florence" instead of "Florencja" in a Polish text would sound weird. If you add historical conflict to it then it can get much worse. "Warschau" in a non-German text would make many Polish people angry because of memories of forced Germanization.
- kgwgk 2y ago
  The point is that using Florence or Cologne in an English text doesn’t sound weird at all even though they are (were) French names.

eadmund 2y ago

I love exonyms when they are native. As you note, the English name for the Italian city is Florence (so too the proper English words are Turkey, Kiev and Peking, not Turkiye, Kyiv or Beijing). I see no reason at all to use the French name for a Flemish city when writing in English. When writing in French, sure.

seszett 2y ago
But Florence is the French name of that city. Or Rome. I don't really understand the difference with Louvain.
readthenotes1 2y ago
What was it called in 1914?
- hyperman1 2y ago
  Both. Belgium is multi-lingual (NL,FR,DE), so most cities and bigger towns have 2 or 3 names. In fact, today, most streets in Brussels have 2 names. So do a lot of big local companies Most local inhabitants would have called it Leuven, as it is a Flemish city. The rich people at that time, both inside and outside the city, heavily promoted French, and pushed only the French names in politics and international communication. Even today, this is a very touchy subject.
  - roelschroeven 2y ago
    Just some clarification on what Belgium's multi-linguality means exactly: Flanders is Dutch-speaking. Wallonia is primarily French-speaking, except for a small part of it which is German-speaking ( The Brussels Capital Region is officially bi-lingual Dutch/French, but in practice it's almost completely French. In restaurants, shops, ... you can be sure to find people who can help you in French, but almost never in Dutch. Police, hospitals, ... are supposed to be bi-lingual, but good luck getting good help if you speak Dutch but not French. In most places, you'll only encounter one language: your own native language. Only Brussels is supposed to be bi-lingual. Many cities do have two or three names, but that's not because those two or three languages are actually spoken in that city.
jltsiren 2y ago
Out of those, Florence and Turkey are proper exonyms. Kiev and Kyiv are direct romanizations of the Russian and Ukrainian names. Other languages have actual exonyms for the city, such as Kiova in Finnish and Kijow in Polish. Peking is a romanization of an older pronunciation, while Beijing is closer to the modern pronunciation of the same name.

thiscatis 2y ago

They are wrong. This is like calling Gdansk, Danzig.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
You mean like calling the Netherlands, Holandia? There's a lot of exonyms in Polish in everyday use.

bloak 2y ago

It's normal, but it causes some problems: people using the wrong exonym or failing to find something they're looking for. And it seems to be gradually going out of fashion. Which places in Belgium have an English Wikipedia page with an exonym as the page title? I can find Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, Ostend. Are there others? I wouldn't be very surprised if a couple of those went out of fashion in English over the coming decades, just like "Brunswick", "Francfort" and "Aix-la-Chapelle" went out of fashion. And "Basle" is on the way out, isn't it?

nsavage 2y ago
A bit off topic, but you had me curious: the first exonym that I could think about was Quebec City, which is called in French Ville de Québec. The interesting part though is that the official name of the city in both languages is Québec, lacking the Ville or the City. Is this an exonym though, since its Canadians who have come up with both? Probably depends on who you speak to.
kgwgk 2y ago
Antwerp.

praptak 2y ago

There's nothing wrong with exonyms in principle. However using "Florence" instead of "Florencja" in a Polish text would sound weird. If you add historical conflict to it then it can get much worse. "Warschau" in a non-German text would make many Polish people angry because of memories of forced Germanization.

kgwgk 2y ago
The point is that using Florence or Cologne in an English text doesn’t sound weird at all even though they are (were) French names.