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The universe is 13.8 billion years old. The JWST has found galaxies formed just 400 million years after the Big Bang. It took the earth 4.6 billion years to for
by likeabbas 2y ago
The universe is 13.8 billion years old. The JWST has found galaxies formed just 400 million years after the Big Bang. It took the earth 4.6 billion years to form, and 1 billion years to create life.
Our best theory of the universe, General Relativity, has solutions that allow for faster-than-light travel via some Alcubierre type drive (some [without negative mass](https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.02709 https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.02709)), and even wormholes.
Even with newtonian mechanic style solutions, it's estimated that it would only take Von Neumann self-replicating probes about 100k years to traverse our own galaxy.
Is it really that unlikely that some non-human intelligence potentially *billions* of years more advanced than us found our planet and uses it to study us or for whatever other purposes to them? IMO no.
And if you would do any research beyond just the headlines, you might come to the realization that our probably has government has recovered crashed/landed NHI craft.
I'm happy to point you to some not-so-light reading if you want to have a real conversation about this.
- Loughla 2y agoI would be interested in the references to read please.
- likeabbas 2y agoYou can start with this bill that Senate Majority Leader Schumer and Senator Mike Rounds put out this year (and last year) https://www.congress.gov/118/crec/2024/07/11/170/115/CREC-2024-07-11-pt1-PgS4943.pdf https://www.congress.gov/118/crec/2024/07/11/170/115/CREC-20... I have to get started with work, but I will come back and give you all the links I have once I get home to my personal laptop.
- Loughla 2y agoOh come on. That's not anything. I'll be here waiting for actual links, please.
- likeabbas 2y agoI apologize, I just had surgery a few days ago. My recovery isn't going as quickly as planned.. Now, I still recommend reading that proposed legislation because it sets the context up for these other links. * Loose Threads PDF https://www.docdroid.net/3sZ9MaI/loose-threads-pdf https://www.docdroid.net/3sZ9MaI/loose-threads-pdf (very, very long read) * Ratcliffe July 2023 https://twitter.com/highpeaks77/status/1685669297308282881 https://twitter.com/highpeaks77/status/1685669297308282881 * Ratcliffe January 2023 https://twitter.com/UAPJames/status/1614644671589892101 https://twitter.com/UAPJames/status/1614644671589892101 * Ratcliffe June 2021 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPDeuy_YSs0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPDeuy_YSs0 * HOC Hearing July 26, 2023 https://www.youtube.com/live/SNgoul4vyDM?si=oBkDt3j63uDL63Tr https://www.youtube.com/live/SNgoul4vyDM?si=oBkDt3j63uDL63Tr * HOC Hearing Nov 13, 2024 https://www.c-span.org/video/?539937-1/hearing-unidentified-anomalousufo-phenomena https://www.c-span.org/video/?539937-1/hearing-unidentified-...
- sgt101 2y agoEspecially ones not written in crayon.
- exe34 2y ago> Is it really that unlikely that some non-human intelligence potentially billions of years more advanced than us I think there's a fine-tuning problem with that kind of argument. You have to believe all the steps that make intelligent space-faring life elsewhere come into being, and yet only one other manages to do so. If there were more than one, then it seems to me the same argument about government conspiracies would apply: every single one of them would have to work very hard to hide any evidence of their existence - not just from our mobile phones, but our most advanced telescopes. I think if there were others close enough to matter, we'd have been colonised by an errant Von Neumann machine by now.
- likeabbas 2y ago> You have to believe all the steps that make intelligent space-faring life elsewhere come into being I would argue that it's very selfish thinking we would be the only intelligent life in the universe, let alone our own galaxy. If you're throwing out the entire argument based on that presumption, then this conversation is pointless. Science is about optimism to learn what we don't know. There are things in the sky that we can't identify, as Obama has said https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1hNYs55sqs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1hNYs55sqs We should be open to the idea of all possibilities, rather than dousing fire on it.
- HankB99 2y ago> I think if there were others close enough to matter, we'd have been colonised by an errant Von Neumann machine by now. As long as were exploring wild theories, how about this one: Aliens smarter than us have colonized earth and are manipulating our information sources so we are not aware. Further, every once in a while they "give" us discoveries to advance our technology in a controlled manner. Perhaps we're captives in what is equivalent to a zoo. I find that more pleasant to imagine than aggressive/hostile aliens that could probably destroy our civilization in about 17 seconds, though that would have the benefit of solving all of our problems in one fell swoop.
- 0points 2y agoWhile your questions is interesting, it is not related to the news being discussed, which is about if USA is covering up details about aliens. I feel most intelligent people understand there's life elsewhere in the universe. Also, people don't automatically assume said life come here and visit us all of the time just because they presumably exist.
- likeabbas 2y agoIt's not automatically assumed, and that's the conversation we're trying to change.
- voidUpdate 2y agoA civilisation billions of years more advanced than us should surely be putting out some sort of signal, intentionally or not, that they exist, right? And yet we've never seen any kind of signal like that. Space is incomprehensibly large and empty, and while I also absolutely believe that there is some other kind of life in the universe, the fact that we've never detected any means they've probably never detected us either, so there's no reason they would be coming here
- johnisgood 2y ago> the fact that we've never detected any means they've probably never detected us either I do not think that your conclusion necessarily follows. They could easily be much more advanced than us, just as we are much more advanced than we were 500 years ago.
- rbanffy 2y ago50 years ago we wouldn’t be able to detect today’s ourselves from Proxima Centauri. 500 years ago we would barely be able to do so from the Moon.
- johnisgood 2y agoI am just saying that there could be a more advanced whatever you may call it that could detect us while we cannot. Much more advanced to us than we are today.
- likeabbas 2y agoWe peaked in our radio frequency output in the 60s. It might be smarter to limit your technosignatures once you reach a certain point of technology.