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I don't know that much about Chinese religions so taking what you write about it at face value. My interest more is to try to clarify what we are talking about
by einhverfr 14y ago
I don't know that much about Chinese religions so taking what you write about it at face value. My interest more is to try to clarify what we are talking about wrt religion.
I: Confucianism and religion.
I think the real challenge here is to define religion. As I define religion there is no question it qualifies. Namely:
A religion is a tradition of myths and/or rituals which transmit and encode patterns of meaning which can be flexibly applied to life in order to make sense of what happens all around us.
It is not necessary to believe in historical accuracy of myths (this obligation to believe was new with Christianity). Adherents may in fact have complete freedom to make sense of the tradition however they like.
Interestingly there are religions (the traditional Hopi religion among Native Americans, for example) which incorporate forms of atheism into them, so a lack of deities isn't fatal.
My understanding is that Confucianism would meet this definition. Would you disagree? You have rituals, stories, etc. which create the patterns of society. The same with Taoism in a different way.
II: Meaning and function of religion
I think our brains work on mythic levels as well as logical levels. I think that religion gives us ways to understand patterns of life which are beyond what we can do in a reductionist approach. I think it has always done this in a way which is deeply tied to culture. That's why I agree with the GP that religious rituals recognizing procreative marriage are entirely universal.
If Chinese folk religion created the institution of marriage, then why is it none of the entire process involves religious worship of any sort?
I don't know that you would define it as religious worship but at least what little I know of it has religious symbols woven throughout the practice. It is ritualized in a religious context. I don't think all religions demand worship though. For example, why is red so highly associated with weddings? Then there is the tea ceremony.
My knowledge of all this is pretty highly abridged because my wife told her family when we got married to abridge the Chinese rituals.
- sp332 14y agobatista said Wrong, marriage was a religious ceremony all along. Which doesn't seem to make much sense given potatolicious' post.
- einhverfr 14y agoI don't really disagree with batista though. Procreative marriage is more universally ritualized with religious symbolism than funerals are. The problem is defining religion. Religion can be a Big Deal somewhere like ancient Athens where as a resident, you participate in the religion or else maybe condemned to death but that doesn't mean you have to believe in it in any specific way. Similarly Hindus generally get to decide whether or not they think their religion has any deities or not.
- einhverfr 14y agoJust so there is no misunderstanding..... I think there is a functional reason why procreative marriages are so universally ritualized. Everywhere, mothers are mothers by virtue of having given birth. Motherhood is thus a biological and physical state defined by what has happened to one's body, and the biological link between mother and child. However, everywhere, fathers are fathers by virtue of social recognition. There is no biological state that corresponds to fatherhood. Fathers may be fathers of children not biologically related to them in societies which practice wife-loaning and wife-swapping, or in polyandrous cultures even without anything like an adoption involved. In one formerly polyandrous culture (the Todas of India), a woman would ceremonially choose the socially recognized father of her children, and if she changed that choice for future children, she would have to go back and ritually designate a different husband. So this difference in how men and women are situated relative to reproduction goes a long way towards explaining the trans-historical and cross-cultural emphasis on procreation as a necessary concern of marriage.