4 ms·

>Some 10-15% of people are LGBT. It stands to reason that the same holds true of engineers. Would love to see two citations for this! (post 1940s!)

henrikschroder 14y ago
The Swedish National Institute of Public Health did a large survey about sex in the late 90's and sexual orientation was one of the many issues. According to that survey: ~1% identified themselves as homosexual ~4% identified themselves as bisexual in varying degrees ~5% could be labeled as bi-curious (tried it/want to try it) A further ~5% of men and ~15% of women had "fantasized about having sex with someone of the same sex at least once". So by being extremely generous with definitions, you could claim that ~80% of the population is completely straight, and that ~20% is therefore "LGBT". But that's stretching it way too far. A reasonable interpretation is that ~1% is gay, and ~5% is LGBT.
corin_ 14y ago
I think 10-15% is probably too high, personally if I had written that comment I would have said 5-10%, but even then I wouldn't be able to prove it. A variety of references can be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientat... and if I were to cherry pick a couple from there to try and prove my 5-10% I could go with "2003, 12% of Norwegian respondents have had homosexual sex" and in the UK in 2010 "5% of people do not identify as heterosexual". Off that same page you could pick out some other stats to suggest that my 5-10% is too high. Here's a couple of reasons it's complicated: 1.) There's a hell of a lot of gay people in the closet, ranging from people who have told close family and friends but won't tell a survey, to people who are in denial to themselves. 2.) Different countries have different general stances on homosexuality. Even if everyone in, for example, the UAE answered an anonymous survey completely truthfully, without fearing for the fact that if they answered anything other than heterosexual could land them in jail or worse, you've got to assume that in countries like that far less people actually realise they are gay given they are in a society that assumes nobody is, so they are never going to question themselves about it.
- einhverfr 14y ago
  I don't understand what you mean by this: you've got to assume that in countries like that far less people actually realise they are gay Can you please explain? Are you saying that people may be gay but in happy heterosexual relationships because they don't understand their true desires?
  - corin_ 14y ago
    I'm no expert and I don't have anyone better educated than me in this area to cite, so I'm going off what seems to be logical to me. There are people in areas where homosexuality is generally accepted (like American, UK etc.) - at least accepted enough that plenty of people can be open about their sexuality without too many problems - who don't acknowledge their sexuality early on in their life. Sometimes this means "not until a few years after puberty", sometimes not until they're middle aged or even older. Whether it's because it literally doesn't occur to them to consider the possibility, or whether they've had some feelings but ignored them, I'm not entirely sure, I suspect both cases happen. All I know is that these people do exist, people who genuinely take a long time to realise, not talking about people who know early on but take a long time to come out to others. So, if this is possible in society where, whatever your view on homosexuality, it's an understood fact that there are gay people out there, it logically extends that those people exist in countries where gay sex gets you a death penalty - and I would assume that it happens more there, because there's no built in expectation surrounding you that some people are gay. When I was at school there was a "known fact" through the school that 1 in 20 people are gay - so when I first thought about my own sexuality, I was aware that it was far from impossible for me to be gay. In some countries I'd have been raised to believe that I am definitely straight because there are no other options. I believe sexuality is something you are born with not brought up to have, therefore there should be as many gay Muslims as there are gay Atheists - culture can definitely prevent people from admitting it, but I think it can also prevent them from knowing it too. p.s. Hope you reply letting me know if I've made my thoughts clearer, and if so whether you agree or think I'm talking shit. It all makes sense to me, but I have no personal experience, having been lucky enough to never have had any fears or uncertainty about my being gay, and living somewhere where I've never actually spoken to someone (internet excluded) who had a problem with me because of it.
dagw 14y ago
The 10-15% number that always gets quoted can almost always be traced back to Kinsey (I believe his actual numbers where 13% for men and 7% for women). However if you look at the actual data from Kinsey you'll find that those numbers include both people who have conducted any sexual act with someone of the same sex (even if it was only once when they where young, and they decided it wasn't their cup of tea), and people who fantasize about the idea, but have never done anything about it.
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  Do I need to have homosexual sexual relations to prove I'm bisexual? Furthermore, you can hate anal sex yet still be bisexual, homosexual, etc.
  - dagw 14y ago
    Do I need to have homosexual sexual relations to prove I'm bisexual? Far from it, you have it backwards. My point is that having had homosexual sex doesn't automatically make you bi/homosexual. I've said nothing about the relation in the other direction. Furthermore, you can hate anal sex yet still be bisexual, homosexual, etc. Of course. I never said anything to the contrary. There are lots and lots of ways of having "sex", many that don't involve sticking your penis in an orifice and having penises stuck in your orifices. edit: In case something was unclear, Kinsey's numbers obviously also included people who self-identified has home/bisexual, no matter their sexual history(or lack of it)
    - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
      Ah, I see. Sorry, I misjudged you there. :)

henrikschroder 14y ago

The Swedish National Institute of Public Health did a large survey about sex in the late 90's and sexual orientation was one of the many issues. According to that survey: ~1% identified themselves as homosexual ~4% identified themselves as bisexual in varying degrees ~5% could be labeled as bi-curious (tried it/want to try it) A further ~5% of men and ~15% of women had "fantasized about having sex with someone of the same sex at least once". So by being extremely generous with definitions, you could claim that ~80% of the population is completely straight, and that ~20% is therefore "LGBT". But that's stretching it way too far. A reasonable interpretation is that ~1% is gay, and ~5% is LGBT.

corin_ 14y ago

I think 10-15% is probably too high, personally if I had written that comment I would have said 5-10%, but even then I wouldn't be able to prove it. A variety of references can be found on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientat... and if I were to cherry pick a couple from there to try and prove my 5-10% I could go with "2003, 12% of Norwegian respondents have had homosexual sex" and in the UK in 2010 "5% of people do not identify as heterosexual". Off that same page you could pick out some other stats to suggest that my 5-10% is too high. Here's a couple of reasons it's complicated: 1.) There's a hell of a lot of gay people in the closet, ranging from people who have told close family and friends but won't tell a survey, to people who are in denial to themselves. 2.) Different countries have different general stances on homosexuality. Even if everyone in, for example, the UAE answered an anonymous survey completely truthfully, without fearing for the fact that if they answered anything other than heterosexual could land them in jail or worse, you've got to assume that in countries like that far less people actually realise they are gay given they are in a society that assumes nobody is, so they are never going to question themselves about it.

einhverfr 14y ago
I don't understand what you mean by this: you've got to assume that in countries like that far less people actually realise they are gay Can you please explain? Are you saying that people may be gay but in happy heterosexual relationships because they don't understand their true desires?
- corin_ 14y ago
  I'm no expert and I don't have anyone better educated than me in this area to cite, so I'm going off what seems to be logical to me. There are people in areas where homosexuality is generally accepted (like American, UK etc.) - at least accepted enough that plenty of people can be open about their sexuality without too many problems - who don't acknowledge their sexuality early on in their life. Sometimes this means "not until a few years after puberty", sometimes not until they're middle aged or even older. Whether it's because it literally doesn't occur to them to consider the possibility, or whether they've had some feelings but ignored them, I'm not entirely sure, I suspect both cases happen. All I know is that these people do exist, people who genuinely take a long time to realise, not talking about people who know early on but take a long time to come out to others. So, if this is possible in society where, whatever your view on homosexuality, it's an understood fact that there are gay people out there, it logically extends that those people exist in countries where gay sex gets you a death penalty - and I would assume that it happens more there, because there's no built in expectation surrounding you that some people are gay. When I was at school there was a "known fact" through the school that 1 in 20 people are gay - so when I first thought about my own sexuality, I was aware that it was far from impossible for me to be gay. In some countries I'd have been raised to believe that I am definitely straight because there are no other options. I believe sexuality is something you are born with not brought up to have, therefore there should be as many gay Muslims as there are gay Atheists - culture can definitely prevent people from admitting it, but I think it can also prevent them from knowing it too. p.s. Hope you reply letting me know if I've made my thoughts clearer, and if so whether you agree or think I'm talking shit. It all makes sense to me, but I have no personal experience, having been lucky enough to never have had any fears or uncertainty about my being gay, and living somewhere where I've never actually spoken to someone (internet excluded) who had a problem with me because of it.

dagw 14y ago

The 10-15% number that always gets quoted can almost always be traced back to Kinsey (I believe his actual numbers where 13% for men and 7% for women). However if you look at the actual data from Kinsey you'll find that those numbers include both people who have conducted any sexual act with someone of the same sex (even if it was only once when they where young, and they decided it wasn't their cup of tea), and people who fantasize about the idea, but have never done anything about it.

TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
Do I need to have homosexual sexual relations to prove I'm bisexual? Furthermore, you can hate anal sex yet still be bisexual, homosexual, etc.
- dagw 14y ago
  Do I need to have homosexual sexual relations to prove I'm bisexual? Far from it, you have it backwards. My point is that having had homosexual sex doesn't automatically make you bi/homosexual. I've said nothing about the relation in the other direction. Furthermore, you can hate anal sex yet still be bisexual, homosexual, etc. Of course. I never said anything to the contrary. There are lots and lots of ways of having "sex", many that don't involve sticking your penis in an orifice and having penises stuck in your orifices. edit: In case something was unclear, Kinsey's numbers obviously also included people who self-identified has home/bisexual, no matter their sexual history(or lack of it)
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    Ah, I see. Sorry, I misjudged you there. :)