3 ms·

How am I supposed to make informed decisions without the research? How is a doctor supposed to choose and present options without it?

s1artibartfast 2y ago
I think that 99% of the bottleneck is not research for basic health, and the value of research is vastly over stated for things like nutrition, health, and exercise. A new study isn't going to convince people people to stop being obese, exercise, and take care of themselves. A study that shows that sleeping longer or eating a Mediterranean diet has a 5% improvement in some metric has almost no specificity to you. Research is important for the 1% of the time your health is already in crisis, When you are picking between medications or interventions after. Even then, personal data on what works for you should always trump the research, because it is statistical in nature, usually with extremely high variability. If drug A works 51% of the time drug B works 49% of the time, the difference between them is almost meaningless. You want to know which drug your body responds to. In the clinical context, I think people and doctors overvalue how much time and effort to spend figuring out where to start, and undervalue how much effort to spend responding to personal data if it works or not.
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  Yeah, sure. But this research is about treatment of serious injury, not about basic healthy life stuff.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    It is still pretty basic stuff. You shouldn't need a bunch of mouse studies to tell you to rest after a heart attack. The article is literally about the body's natural drive to rest and sleep so that it can heal after major injury.
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      You need it to be sure that's a good thing, and to be able to evaluate and measure it. While not this time, we definitely did find out counterintuitive stuff in other research.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Sure, but that shouldn't paralyze your action in absence of detailed scientific data.
- rramadass 2y ago
  > the value of research is vastly over stated for things like nutrition, health, and exercise. Well said! People talk as if all empirical health practices that different cultures all over the world have developed are worthless without "modern research" while the researchers themselves are looking at it for inspiration and study.
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    Who talks like that? Yes, researchers want to know why the empirically developed practices work. That's a great thing in my book.
    - rramadass 2y ago
      The point was that you shouldn't have to wait for some research to confirm what has actually been empirically proven health practices over generations. That can come when it comes. A good example are practices from Yoga/Ayurveda/Qigong/Acupuncture etc. Their worldview, model of anatomy/physiology is very different than modern science but many of their techniques (not claiming all) do work even if we don't fully understand how as yet. That is why many Hospitals/Healthcare centers are adopting them for use in a controlled manner today.
      - thrw42A8N 2y ago
        Sure. But if you want a doctor to recommend and use it, there needs to be research - for both their and the patients' protection.
        rramadass 2y ago
        But the point is; Doctors are recommending and using them now in spite of incomplete research on them. You seem to have a wrong idea of "Scientific Method" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) and how policies are actually enacted based on incomplete knowledge/research.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

I think that 99% of the bottleneck is not research for basic health, and the value of research is vastly over stated for things like nutrition, health, and exercise. A new study isn't going to convince people people to stop being obese, exercise, and take care of themselves. A study that shows that sleeping longer or eating a Mediterranean diet has a 5% improvement in some metric has almost no specificity to you. Research is important for the 1% of the time your health is already in crisis, When you are picking between medications or interventions after. Even then, personal data on what works for you should always trump the research, because it is statistical in nature, usually with extremely high variability. If drug A works 51% of the time drug B works 49% of the time, the difference between them is almost meaningless. You want to know which drug your body responds to. In the clinical context, I think people and doctors overvalue how much time and effort to spend figuring out where to start, and undervalue how much effort to spend responding to personal data if it works or not.

thrw42A8N 2y ago
Yeah, sure. But this research is about treatment of serious injury, not about basic healthy life stuff.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  It is still pretty basic stuff. You shouldn't need a bunch of mouse studies to tell you to rest after a heart attack. The article is literally about the body's natural drive to rest and sleep so that it can heal after major injury.
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    You need it to be sure that's a good thing, and to be able to evaluate and measure it. While not this time, we definitely did find out counterintuitive stuff in other research.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Sure, but that shouldn't paralyze your action in absence of detailed scientific data.
rramadass 2y ago
> the value of research is vastly over stated for things like nutrition, health, and exercise. Well said! People talk as if all empirical health practices that different cultures all over the world have developed are worthless without "modern research" while the researchers themselves are looking at it for inspiration and study.
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  Who talks like that? Yes, researchers want to know why the empirically developed practices work. That's a great thing in my book.
  - rramadass 2y ago
    The point was that you shouldn't have to wait for some research to confirm what has actually been empirically proven health practices over generations. That can come when it comes. A good example are practices from Yoga/Ayurveda/Qigong/Acupuncture etc. Their worldview, model of anatomy/physiology is very different than modern science but many of their techniques (not claiming all) do work even if we don't fully understand how as yet. That is why many Hospitals/Healthcare centers are adopting them for use in a controlled manner today.
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      Sure. But if you want a doctor to recommend and use it, there needs to be research - for both their and the patients' protection.
      - rramadass 2y ago
        But the point is; Doctors are recommending and using them now in spite of incomplete research on them. You seem to have a wrong idea of "Scientific Method" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method) and how policies are actually enacted based on incomplete knowledge/research.