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My point is that if you build internal products usually there’s a lot less convincing to do, and it’s much easier to get a lot of control ( no marketing, commun

My point is that if you build internal products usually there’s a lot less convincing to do, and it’s much easier to get a lot of control ( no marketing, communication, etc ). Now, if you want to ship a product to millions of people _and_ have full control over it, then a large org is indeed not the right place.

kristopolous 2y ago
Full control? nope. A system to consider honest input without regard for job titles or hierarchy? yes! For instance, I am not a UX designer but I do keep abreast of consumer perception and preference in whatever field I'm working in - almost like a stalker. If a designer designs an interface and the feedback is clearly and unanimously negative, I should be able to present this and affect actual change in the product - not have my concerns heard, not considered, but to force actual remedial action taken to fundamentally address the issue. If a competitor rolls out a new feature that is leading to a mass exodus of our customers, I should be able to demonstrate this without the managers whiffing about some vision that nobody gives a shit about or sprint planning responding to it in 6-months or having days of endlessly yapping. If the ship's got a leak my brother, it should be quickly and swiftly addressed. It'd be like driving to lunch and your car catches on fire, you ignore it, and think about what you're going to be getting for dessert. People realize these urgencies in IT/devops but teams that don't want to rock the boat as you gently glide over a waterfall are a complete waste of time. So control? No. But if someone waves their hands and shout danger, they shouldn't be patronizingly patted on the head and told everything's under control. In conventional large companies, that's exactly what happens. You're on a team, get assigned tickets, attend meetings, everyone calmly plays their roles and if you notice something in someone else's lane, you're supposed to politely stay quiet and watch everybody crash.
- Agingcoder 2y ago
  Understood. Based on my many years in a large org, what you’re describing depends on the large org, and more specifically on management. I’ve seen both : bad managers who let the boat crash and wouldn’t listen, and very good ones ( leading thousands of people ) understanding there was a problem, owning it and fixing it. There are large orgs which are like what you want ( I work in one of them and that’s why I’m not leaving). I suspect there are not many of them though !

kristopolous 2y ago

Full control? nope. A system to consider honest input without regard for job titles or hierarchy? yes! For instance, I am not a UX designer but I do keep abreast of consumer perception and preference in whatever field I'm working in - almost like a stalker. If a designer designs an interface and the feedback is clearly and unanimously negative, I should be able to present this and affect actual change in the product - not have my concerns heard, not considered, but to force actual remedial action taken to fundamentally address the issue. If a competitor rolls out a new feature that is leading to a mass exodus of our customers, I should be able to demonstrate this without the managers whiffing about some vision that nobody gives a shit about or sprint planning responding to it in 6-months or having days of endlessly yapping. If the ship's got a leak my brother, it should be quickly and swiftly addressed. It'd be like driving to lunch and your car catches on fire, you ignore it, and think about what you're going to be getting for dessert. People realize these urgencies in IT/devops but teams that don't want to rock the boat as you gently glide over a waterfall are a complete waste of time. So control? No. But if someone waves their hands and shout danger, they shouldn't be patronizingly patted on the head and told everything's under control. In conventional large companies, that's exactly what happens. You're on a team, get assigned tickets, attend meetings, everyone calmly plays their roles and if you notice something in someone else's lane, you're supposed to politely stay quiet and watch everybody crash.

Agingcoder 2y ago
Understood. Based on my many years in a large org, what you’re describing depends on the large org, and more specifically on management. I’ve seen both : bad managers who let the boat crash and wouldn’t listen, and very good ones ( leading thousands of people ) understanding there was a problem, owning it and fixing it. There are large orgs which are like what you want ( I work in one of them and that’s why I’m not leaving). I suspect there are not many of them though !