6 ms·

They're not intercepting calls over their network from suspected bad actors; rather, they've created some phone numbers that always go to Daisy - see https://ww

They're not intercepting calls over their network from suspected bad actors; rather, they've created some phone numbers that always go to Daisy - see https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/11/virgin-media-o2-uk-creates-ai-granny-to-waste-scammers-time.html https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/11/virgin-media-o...

axus 2y ago
Ah! So step 2 is wait for the spammers to automate blacklisting of Daisy phone numbers, and only then start rolling out a (paid) Daisy option to customers. Not connecting calls doesn't waste spammer money, but maybe Daisy does. If the big telco can find 10 righteous callers from a a bad actor telecom, they should keep routing the calls.
- ttul 2y ago
  My friend works for a big telco and is the guy fixing this problem for them. They have amazing powers of deception when they need it. New numbers can be conjured up at any time.
  - simfree 2y ago
    The new fad among wireless carriers here in the US is to route what they think are spam calls to a fake voicemail box. Voicemail that is left in this generic voice mail box never makes it to their customer and the customer is completely unaware that some of their calls have been diverted.
    - jollyllama 2y ago
      Wow. There should be a way to opt out of this, at least. Isn't this a violation of common carrier laws?
    - immibis 2y ago
      Then suddenly, calls from consenting callers to consenting receivers are labeled as spam and blocked. What can you do about it? Nothing. Switch to email, I guess. Oh wait, same problem.
      - kabdib 2y ago
        reductio ad absurdum: we're back to Pony Express
        telgareith 2y ago
        Simple: shoot the messenger.
        immibis 2y ago
        I called out email because email actually has this problem. It's not reductio ad absurdum if it's true.
        connicpu 2y ago
        Bulk scams by mail are at least less common because mail fraud is investigated pretty seriously and results in federal felony charges. Not to mention the cost of initiation is much higher. Unfortunately individuals are still sometimes targeted.
        ethbr1 2y ago
        > Not to mention the cost of initiation is much higher This is the thing we screwed up for email and phone (after per call fees dropped to zero). It's not rocket science to create systems that net to zero for common usage (balanced in-bound vs out-bound), but charge an arm and a leg for bulk senders.
        immibis 2y ago
        Until you're running a file server or the equivalent. There has to be some way for a willing recipient to zero-rate or reverse-charge the responses to their requests. The Internet gets this wrong.
    - connicpu 2y ago
      Not sure about all carriers, but on mine I still get a push notification when a call gets blocked blocked by the spam filter.
    - D-Coder 2y ago
      Sounds like a shadow-ban.
  - neilalexander 2y ago
    Better yet, route all calls for all disconnected/unassigned numbers in their part of the numbering plan to it. It would probably kill robocalling overnight.
    - connicpu 2y ago
      Who tells them the number is disconnected? That would have to come from the shady carrier enabling this stuff.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    I hate to say this.. but I find this very difficult to believe.. I don't think any telco puts effort into stopping spammers.. I'd like them to but I don't think it's something they either can care or legally capable of fixing.
    - Anamon 2y ago
      I work for a telco, though not in that department. We put a lot of effort into trying to block spam calls, and adapting systems to the newest tricks. The reason why the results aren't better is (I'm being told) a combination between IP telephony making reliable source tracing all but impossible, and common carrier laws which mean that you can't block a call unless you're 100% certain it's a scam, otherwise you open yourself up to being sued.
      - worthless-trash 2y ago
        I imagine that many of us would gladly accept blocking call with a much lower certainty. Maybe we need an audio catcha. Thank you for the insight.
- ensignavenger 2y ago
  Then, once the spammers have blacklisted the Daisy numbers, cycle those spam-free numbers to their customers and start a new batch of Daisy numbers. This way, there is a constant flow of spammer free numbers being cycled into the pool. Of course, everyone and their dog wants your phone number, so you will have to be careful who you give it to if you want it to stay spam-free.
  - ronsor 2y ago
    > Then, once the spammers have blacklisted the Daisy numbers, cycle those spam-free numbers to their customers and start a new batch of Daisy numbers. This is actually genius. The spammers will have blacklisted all of their targets eventually.
    - lhamil64 2y ago
      Until they catch on and un-blacklist the numbers periodically.
      - Szpadel 2y ago
        we all know the end game: ai scammer talking to ai granny
        flir 2y ago
        As long as the scammer's paying to route the call, I'm ok with this. And the telcos' fitness function for their pool of robogrannies should be time-spent-on-call. Making it uneconomic is the way to kill it.
        dools 2y ago
        AI Guilfoyle and AI Dinesh
        etlabaume 2y ago
        Half of the spam calls I get today are AI. And I get more or less one spam call a day.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  > If the big telco can find 10 righteous callers from a a bad actor telecom, they should keep routing the calls. Why?
knicholes 2y ago
Ah, so it's a honeypot.

axus 2y ago

Ah! So step 2 is wait for the spammers to automate blacklisting of Daisy phone numbers, and only then start rolling out a (paid) Daisy option to customers. Not connecting calls doesn't waste spammer money, but maybe Daisy does. If the big telco can find 10 righteous callers from a a bad actor telecom, they should keep routing the calls.

ttul 2y ago
My friend works for a big telco and is the guy fixing this problem for them. They have amazing powers of deception when they need it. New numbers can be conjured up at any time.
- simfree 2y ago
  The new fad among wireless carriers here in the US is to route what they think are spam calls to a fake voicemail box. Voicemail that is left in this generic voice mail box never makes it to their customer and the customer is completely unaware that some of their calls have been diverted.
  - jollyllama 2y ago
    Wow. There should be a way to opt out of this, at least. Isn't this a violation of common carrier laws?
  - immibis 2y ago
    Then suddenly, calls from consenting callers to consenting receivers are labeled as spam and blocked. What can you do about it? Nothing. Switch to email, I guess. Oh wait, same problem.
    - kabdib 2y ago
      reductio ad absurdum: we're back to Pony Express
      - telgareith 2y ago
        Simple: shoot the messenger.
      - immibis 2y ago
        I called out email because email actually has this problem. It's not reductio ad absurdum if it's true.
      - connicpu 2y ago
        Bulk scams by mail are at least less common because mail fraud is investigated pretty seriously and results in federal felony charges. Not to mention the cost of initiation is much higher. Unfortunately individuals are still sometimes targeted.
        ethbr1 2y ago
        > Not to mention the cost of initiation is much higher This is the thing we screwed up for email and phone (after per call fees dropped to zero). It's not rocket science to create systems that net to zero for common usage (balanced in-bound vs out-bound), but charge an arm and a leg for bulk senders.
        immibis 2y ago
        Until you're running a file server or the equivalent. There has to be some way for a willing recipient to zero-rate or reverse-charge the responses to their requests. The Internet gets this wrong.
  - connicpu 2y ago
    Not sure about all carriers, but on mine I still get a push notification when a call gets blocked blocked by the spam filter.
  - D-Coder 2y ago
    Sounds like a shadow-ban.
- neilalexander 2y ago
  Better yet, route all calls for all disconnected/unassigned numbers in their part of the numbering plan to it. It would probably kill robocalling overnight.
  - connicpu 2y ago
    Who tells them the number is disconnected? That would have to come from the shady carrier enabling this stuff.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  I hate to say this.. but I find this very difficult to believe.. I don't think any telco puts effort into stopping spammers.. I'd like them to but I don't think it's something they either can care or legally capable of fixing.
  - Anamon 2y ago
    I work for a telco, though not in that department. We put a lot of effort into trying to block spam calls, and adapting systems to the newest tricks. The reason why the results aren't better is (I'm being told) a combination between IP telephony making reliable source tracing all but impossible, and common carrier laws which mean that you can't block a call unless you're 100% certain it's a scam, otherwise you open yourself up to being sued.
    - worthless-trash 2y ago
      I imagine that many of us would gladly accept blocking call with a much lower certainty. Maybe we need an audio catcha. Thank you for the insight.
ensignavenger 2y ago
Then, once the spammers have blacklisted the Daisy numbers, cycle those spam-free numbers to their customers and start a new batch of Daisy numbers. This way, there is a constant flow of spammer free numbers being cycled into the pool. Of course, everyone and their dog wants your phone number, so you will have to be careful who you give it to if you want it to stay spam-free.
- ronsor 2y ago
  > Then, once the spammers have blacklisted the Daisy numbers, cycle those spam-free numbers to their customers and start a new batch of Daisy numbers. This is actually genius. The spammers will have blacklisted all of their targets eventually.
  - lhamil64 2y ago
    Until they catch on and un-blacklist the numbers periodically.
    - Szpadel 2y ago
      we all know the end game: ai scammer talking to ai granny
      - flir 2y ago
        As long as the scammer's paying to route the call, I'm ok with this. And the telcos' fitness function for their pool of robogrannies should be time-spent-on-call. Making it uneconomic is the way to kill it.
      - dools 2y ago
        AI Guilfoyle and AI Dinesh
      - etlabaume 2y ago
        Half of the spam calls I get today are AI. And I get more or less one spam call a day.
carlosjobim 2y ago
> If the big telco can find 10 righteous callers from a a bad actor telecom, they should keep routing the calls. Why?

knicholes 2y ago

Ah, so it's a honeypot.