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That's a legalism that isn't universal. Personally, I think that anyone who engages in engineering is logically an engineer. Maybe not a certified engineer, but

That's a legalism that isn't universal. Personally, I think that anyone who engages in engineering is logically an engineer. Maybe not a certified engineer, but an engineer nonetheless.

pjmlp 2y ago
So is anyone that cooks a Chef.
- hobs 2y ago
  My Kiss The Chef apron says yes.
- JohnFen 2y ago
  "Chef" is a specific job title. Anyone who has that job, regardless of qualifications, is a "chef", yes.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Yeah but can they deliver, and handle a kitchen, like one that actually has a diploma in Culinary arts?
    - portaouflop 2y ago
      Sometimes they can, sometimes not. What is your point here?
    - JohnFen 2y ago
      Some can, some can't. A degree is no guarantee that the person is able to perform at a high level, and the lack of a degree is no guarantee that they can't. But none of that is relevant to my point, which is largely linguistic. If a person is doing a thing, then they are "a person who is doing the thing." If a person is engineering, then they're an engineer by definition. That's not saying they're a good or bad engineer, just that's what they're doing. There is a role for certifications, of course! But those certifications are intended to mark a lower boundary of ability, nothing more. Rather than overloading "engineer" to indicate that a person has a certification, I'd advocate calling them something like a "certified engineer". That would be correct and accurate, and wouldn't exclude a whole lot of great defacto engineers.
taway1874 2y ago
LOL! A butcher cuts meat and so does a surgeon. Who would you prefer to operate on you?
Eisenstein 2y ago
"The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property"[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering

That's a legalism that isn't universal. Personally, I think that anyone who engages in engineering is logically an engineer. Maybe not a certified engineer, but an engineer nonetheless.

pjmlp 2y ago

So is anyone that cooks a Chef.

hobs 2y ago
My Kiss The Chef apron says yes.
JohnFen 2y ago
"Chef" is a specific job title. Anyone who has that job, regardless of qualifications, is a "chef", yes.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Yeah but can they deliver, and handle a kitchen, like one that actually has a diploma in Culinary arts?
  - portaouflop 2y ago
    Sometimes they can, sometimes not. What is your point here?
  - JohnFen 2y ago
    Some can, some can't. A degree is no guarantee that the person is able to perform at a high level, and the lack of a degree is no guarantee that they can't. But none of that is relevant to my point, which is largely linguistic. If a person is doing a thing, then they are "a person who is doing the thing." If a person is engineering, then they're an engineer by definition. That's not saying they're a good or bad engineer, just that's what they're doing. There is a role for certifications, of course! But those certifications are intended to mark a lower boundary of ability, nothing more. Rather than overloading "engineer" to indicate that a person has a certification, I'd advocate calling them something like a "certified engineer". That would be correct and accurate, and wouldn't exclude a whole lot of great defacto engineers.

taway1874 2y ago

LOL! A butcher cuts meat and so does a surgeon. Who would you prefer to operate on you?

Eisenstein 2y ago

"The creative application of scientific principles to design or develop structures, machines, apparatus, or manufacturing processes, or works utilizing them singly or in combination; or to construct or operate the same with full cognizance of their design; or to forecast their behavior under specific operating conditions; all as respects an intended function, economics of operation and safety to life and property"[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering